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Old 12-24-2011, 12:04 AM   #1
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Does anyone have any experience with coating an old terne (standing seam steel) roof? One year ago next week our roof (dated 1900-1980's) was painted by painter recommended and supported by a Glidden pro rep. Old tarry coating residue was to be removed by pressure washing and scraping.. then primed and two coats paint. Within two weeks of completion it was peeling, flaking, lifting, etc.. Efforts to have ANYONE give us an estimate of removing the failing coating have been in vain.. no one will touch it. Am told there is no way to even estimate the man hours it will take to get the "junk" off. The ONLY written estimate we have is a figure to remove entire roof and replace it with new metal. We do not want a new roof.. this house was made for the roof in place. We're begining to think that we'll need to rent another lift (we had one for 8 months to strip and repaint the house.. DIY job) and tackle this roof ourselves. One "expert" says we now have pinpoint rust under the failed coating... So... any experience here? Can we scrape off the Glidden Dura-something and seal it.. then recoat? I say scrape.. most of it will flip off with putty knife. We're told roof has lead coating.. so any suggestions as to product? Massive roof... 7200 sq feet. If anyone wants to see photos, I'll be glad to attach them.. we have hundreds.. plus videos of poor prep job.. debris under paint, etc. Help.. we want to save this marvelous old roof.

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Last edited by Devastated1890; 12-24-2011 at 12:06 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-24-2011, 08:12 AM   #2
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Dev, welcome to the forum, sorry it's under such circumstances. Where to begin? We'll not be able to give you any solid advice on repairing with terms like "dura-something", and such vagaries as prep and primed. What was the pre-existing surface, other than tarry coating? What was the prep? What primer was it and what base, latex/oil? Finally, dura what? You didn't mention where the original painter and Glidden stand. What are they doing to get the issue resolved, other than CYA of course, which you'll have to penetrate. Personally, I would never put a coating on a standing seam tin roof, and I've done many, unless it has very specific roof application. The temps they can reach, and dip to, are extreme. That a product is okay for metal is not enough. I've always used Tinner products made by Calbar. Calbar makes a primer for use over lead coating. But that's for future reference. I can understand the inability to estimate and the lack of desire of any contractor to take that on, unless they want to be your hero. You need to have tech people from Glidden come to the job and make a technical assessment of the cause of the failure and the method of repair, a move I'm surprised has not been forthcoming, and I hope your painter used a full Glidden system, primer and finish. And I hope the contractor was not the Glidden reps unemployed cousin he was throwing work to and guiding through the job. You're not in a great spot here, and you're going to need to get familiar with the Glidden people. IMO, that's where you need to start. Personally, I would consider that job (in theory), but only with an assessment of the failure, the understanding that until the prep is done price is a question mark (T&M), and I would bring in a rep from Calbar to guide me through the finishing once the prep is done. Pinpoint rust is akin to telling your roof it has a spot on its lung, it's the beginning of cancer, rusting out. It will slowly turn into a pinhole, which can leak and be extremely difficult to find. IMO, it doesn't justify a new roof, but you need to get ahead of it. Believe me, the cost of a new 72 sq standing seam roof will dwarf even the highest repainting price, if that's any consolation. IMO, start with Glidden (above the rep) and keep us posted. Good Luck.
Joe

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Old 12-24-2011, 09:27 AM   #3
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Whoops.. lost reply. Was saying that I do know more exact history and will come back with that and the exact name of the coatings. Glidden dist. rep said to myself and another person that "it was not prepped".. but terne expert said Glidden chose wrong product.. so dual problem and they are not willing to do anything at this point. We do have an attorney involved.. since early on asking what on earth we can do. It's reached oint where it will be a suit, evidently. Our dilemna is that husband is retiring very soon and we need to be in smaller, flatter home. Painter, etc. know that are just trying to wait us out.. That fact combined with no one being able to estimate costs of faulty coating removal makes us wonder if we are going to have to do it ourselves.. at 67 & 70 not something we probably should be doing.. but we surely would have done a better job than the painter/Glidden rep. We're slow.. but we do it right.
I will check out Calbar online. Do not think I've seen it in the Charleston area. Thanks... Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, .. Happy Holidays.. whatever you may be celebrating this weekend... or simply celebrating living in America and being above ground!!! DIY denotes ownership... and we can be thankful for that!
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:37 AM   #4
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


I'm assuming it was Duraguard from what I've seen of Glidden's product line. Glidden, to my knowledge, doesn't make a roof coating, period. At best they should have given you something from the Devoe Coatings industrial line. Duraguard looks like it's meant as a masonry coating. So yes the wrong product was used. They should have sent you elsewhere if they were unable to make a correct product recommendation. If there was a tarry coating on it before, scraping and pressure washing will not remove that. The roof needed to be stripped via soda or dry ice blasting to take it to bare metal, not something most contractors can do and not something most home owners will pay for. If I were to do this job I would have use the proper bonding primers after doing the best prep I could and then top coated with a high quality acrylic DTM. Even with this I would make clear before hand that there would be no warranty and no guarantee that it wouldn't fail. The only correct was is to strip it completely.
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:44 AM   #5
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


If the roof is so old and rusted there's pin holes forming it should never have been painted. No amount of paint is going to fix a roof that's at the end of it's life.
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:30 PM   #6
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Roof was inspected by quite a few folks right after the job was complete and failure was obvious. The concensus was that the roof was not at the end of its life.. that it was essentially in good shape with exception of a few small areas that could be repaired. That this product has laid on the roof now waiting for "inspectors, etc." has contributed to the "pinhole rust". There will be other folks inspecting for sure... but we're just wondering if folks have had similar problem with this product. After Christmas I'll post some photos... you just won't believe it. You don't know whether to or . We've been through both.. and the tears.
As one friend said.. it's like someone kicked Great-grandma in the stomach... abuse of a grand old lady. I tried to hand the painter and the Glidden rep some printouts from the internet regarding process for cleaning off and recoating Terne roofing, but was told that they knew what to do.. they didn't need it. Obviously, the painter did Not know what to do.. and now we've been told by two Charleston area terne installers that Glidden chose the wrong product.
Thanks for the immediate interest and information!!!! Will get back with photos..
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Old 12-25-2011, 12:08 AM   #7
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


We do those roofs here and there. Your Glidden rep flat out recommended the wrong products. You must have a product designed to go over rust like Kembond or at the very leat Rustolium. From there you can topcoat with latex but I still would recommend oil for the fact that latex breathes and that means moisture will get through it adding to the rust.
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:41 PM   #8
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Duraguard is not a Glidden product; It is a manufacturer of roof coatings, under that name. Glidden has Spred Dura, which is an exterior acrylic house paint (not suitable for metal roofing at all).

The product line for a terne metal roof would be (after proper surface prep): The Devoe Coatings Devguard 4130 or 4160 primer (oil based, rust inhibitive), topcoated with the Devguard 4308 or the Devguard 4328 products (Alkyd Gloss, Alkyd Urethane gloss).
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:58 PM   #9
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Thanks to all of you and your interest.. have 90 year old Dad in hospital with pneumonia right now.. so time is limited.. but did pull out the label on the 5 gal buckets that were used on the roof. The product, supplied by the Glidden "professional representative" was Devflex HP. The primer (which looked white when applied but now looks a silver undercoat attached to the paint (tinted a light sage green) as it flakes off roof) was same product. The paint says High Performance Acrylic Enamel.. Egshell. It lists product info on bottom of label as 4212-0500 Neutral Tint Base.. Indicates it is for Industrial Use and Professional Application Only.
It is a "Devoe High Performance Coating"... but bears the ICI (Glidden ?) logo.
Roof was coated in Seal-O-Flex 12 years ago.. which did not hold up at all. Contractor then was supplied by Seal O Flex company owner after he saw photos of house and a few close ups of the roof. After two years the roof looked as spotty as camouflage. I'd been concerned during that job that the "three step" process was not what was being done (pink bubble gum layer being eliminated). Owner told me to let the fellow do his work.. that he knew what he was doing. He pressured washed roof and then sprayed two coats of Seal O Flex final coat. Looked great, but within six months was staining overhangs, etc. When the job was begun in December 2010, there was very little Seal O Flex (a dark Charleston green) left on the roof. It washed off readily when pressure washed. Our pre-job conversations stressed that the Seal O Flex had been a waste of money. We learned back then that 12 local historic homeowners had sued SOF for failure.. and won. We didn't go that route.. just figured our attempt at a more esthetic roof had failed.. and lived with it. No leaks so we just lived with our silver roof for the next 11 years. At least the poor SOF job didn't trap moisture under it as this Glidden coating is doing.
So, flaking, peeling, lifting, cracking Devflex HP is the current debacle. thanks again for all your interest and information!!!!
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:50 PM   #10
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Looking at some info on the net on Devflex HP and it seems that stuff is nothing more than a DTM (Direct to Metal) and while that may be ok on a sound surface you need much much more than that over any kind of rust. The most extreme measure would be to have the roof sand blasted and then painted. The least would be to use a rustolium paint.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:56 PM   #11
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Thanks.. do recall them telling me that it would bond to the metal. Obviously it did not. Have been told by one "terne expert" that it would not bond to the roof because the roof has a lead coating.
The "Glidden pro's" first recommendation was that it should be sandblasted but my call to Follansbee Steel that afternoon said "definitely NOT"... an inexperienced operator could blast a hole through the roof if there were thin areas. On the painter/pro's return a day or so later to present us with the job fee, they said they'd decided that it did not need to be sandblasted and that pressure washing and scraping would remove what was left of the old coating. There actually was NOT a lot of rust present at that point. After obvious job failure, THE area "terne expert" contacted Follansbee and they told him that the roof should be pressure washed at 3000 psi with a zero tip to remove the faulty coating.. then treated with a rust-inhibiting primer.. followed by acceptible coating that would flex and withstand our summer heat. Their product would be acceptable. We would have used their product line in the beginning, but was advised by an acquaintance who does high-end historic renovations that Folls. did not warrantee their paint within 50 miles of the coat. Was told by this contractor-friend to just contact one of the major paint companies and they would recommend a suitable product. Interviewed painter first and he said he dealt with Glidden's professional division. So much for that bad decision. The #1 terne expert did try to remove a small area using the recommended Follansbee method.. and it worked. Just can't find anyone willing to estimate what that removal method will be in USD!! Lots of folks willing to remove roof and replace it... not one willing to consider cleaning it off and then coating with Follanbee's product, Preservation Products' Acrymax, or anything else that would bond to the terne. It has been stressed that the project needs to be done in small increments.. not cleaned off one day and coated the next as this was done.
The Glidden district manager did see the job about 2 weeks after completion and he said "this was not prepped".. and to me he said "We will work with you". Sent disc of over 100 photos and several emails... and no offer of "help" has been forthcoming. That was 9 months ago. Twice now the Glidden "pro" has shown up with the painter "to collect samples" after we were told that there were "experts" coming to collect paint samples. Expert what?... experts at stalling and delaying our ability to get something done to further protect the roof.
Will try to download some photos over the weekend ... wish I could relay all of the approximately 300 that we have... it's just incredible.
Thanks for your comments...
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:32 PM   #12
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Devflex is fine on a clean or primed metal surface- it does not have rust inhibitive properties on its own.
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:51 PM   #13
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


So at first someone recommended NOT sand blasting because you could punch holes in the metal. Now, someone else is saying to PW at 3000 PSI to remove the coating? Wow, this is not sounding so good.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:10 PM   #14
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymschu View Post
So at first someone recommended NOT sand blasting because you could punch holes in the metal. Now, someone else is saying to PW at 3000 PSI to remove the coating? Wow, this is not sounding so good.

I thought that from the get go.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:49 AM   #15
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Complete failure of Glidden roof paint job


Sand blasting can definitely be too aggressive for this. Soda or dry ice would be able to take it to bare metal with no damage at all to the roof. Finding someone with the right equipment and the experience to use it could be the issue.

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