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Old 08-31-2007, 12:27 PM   #91
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Good point Big Bob

I can tell you from personal experience, the "300 sq. ft." claimed is being extremely generous

Actual application in the real world is a little over 200
...240 best case

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Old 09-01-2007, 09:14 PM   #92
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Just a quick comment on Pitt's Manor Hall. We painted our home with this product eight years ago, and it still looks as good as the day it was done. We live in the Minneapolis area so we have the extremes of harsh winters and brutal summers. We plan to paint again next summer because the calendar tells me we are living on borrowed time. You can be assured that we will be using Manor Hall again, provided today's formulation is the same as eight years ago. Is it?
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Old 12-23-2007, 09:27 PM   #93
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Qoute:
Originally Posted by MasterStrokes
"People are actually returning it and getting refunds if they complain to higher powers. I’d rather inform a client of its potential problems and the proper way to get a refund instead of taking a chance with a product known to cause problems."

I just bought $400 worth of behr paints and it looks like I am having similiar problems. I had a friend, not a pro painter, paint some rooms in my basement and it took him several coats to get the paint. Now I have hired a pro painter and he frowned at the thought of using behr paint. He said he would used if he had to but he hates it. Anyways my question is to MasterStrokes. How would you advise me to go about getting refund. I bought it at Home Depot. I saved $7 a gallon on their sale in November....didn't do my research :-( Any advise would be helpful.
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Old 12-24-2007, 07:13 AM   #94
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I cant think of one good quality BHer has

That's because there are none.
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Old 12-24-2007, 09:23 AM   #95
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[quote=StrokeOn;60639]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterStrokes View Post
Honestly I’ve had problems with Behr every time I’ve used it. It’s difficult to apply uniformly. You have to push the paint across the surface because it’s too thick. It dries too fast and leaves paint build up spots where the roller overlaps with the cut in. It dries flashy leaving dull and shiny spots when looking down the length of a wall. It smells like ammonia. I’ve seen the junk sag when applied heavily. It has virtually zero leveling power on horizontal surfaces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterStrokes View Post


When you have had the problems with the Behr paint drying quickly how did you work around that problem?
Currently I am helping my Aunt and she prefers Satin Enamel and I am getting impatient because by the time I cut and roll there is that run and if I roll first and try to cut - even when I do just a small section then the paint dries enough that there is a clear demarcation between the rolled section and the cut section.
If there is a good way to do that - when you already have the paint, I would appreciate it. I have worked with many different paints - Color Wheel, Porter,American Tradition, different brands of Semi Gloss but never worked with Satin Enamel before and don't think I will ever do so again unless this paint can make me feel good about the finished product. I believe in perfectly good job
Thanks much in advance
There is a product called Floetrol which is a conditioner for latex paints. A similar product with a different name is available from the same company for oil based paints. You can buy Floetrol at HD, Lowes and pretty much any paint supply house. It is an excellent conditioner that retards drying and relaxes the paint so that it flows more easily and so that brush marks dissipate and blend, preventing lap marks as the paint relaxes. It's near impossible to paint with any latex paint, especially enamels, here in the AZ desert outdoors without adding it to slow up the drying long enough to allow the paint to smoothen out and dry more naturally. A gallon is around $14 and it goes a long, long way. Doesn't interfere with the color of the paint or its coverage. I keep it on-hand at all times.
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Old 12-24-2007, 09:47 AM   #96
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Behr paints are not my favorite but many of the brand names nentioned in this thread are either not readily available in the AZ marketplace or just as "iffy" on the end results. With desrt heat and A/C 9 months of the year, latex paints will all dry too quickly and leave brush and roller (lap) marks, missed or thin spots, etc. I've realized that without adding Floetrol, it's virtually impossible to achieve uniform and satisfactory results.

Back east, Benjamin Moore and Ronan were favorites. Here in AZ, Dunn-Edwards dominates among builders and designers, specifically in the exterior stucco and custom designer color palettes.
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Old 12-25-2007, 07:40 PM   #97
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I just finished making and painting five recipe shelves for Christmas gifts. All were first primed with two coats of Kilz.

Two were painted green with American Accents, satin finish, from Rustoleum. This paint covered very well, leveled well, showed very few brush marks, and was very easy to use and clean up - I was very impressed.

One was blue on which I used Kilz exterior satin. I seem to find that exterior paints don't work extremely well on small projects (paint is too thick, doesn't level well, and shows lots of brush marks) until I mix in some Floetrol conditioner or equivalent after which workability and results are average or a little above.

Two were red. The first I painted with on-hand American Traditions from Valspar. The paint was old and I had to strain it but it still covered reasonably well and showed only a few brush strokes. Not a real good evaluation because of its age but it worked well for me. For the second red shelf I needed to get more cranberry (red) paint. I got Behr Ultra -OMG what a mistake. It flows like plastic and looks like liquid plastic as I was painting it. It did not cover well at all - three coats + where the others required only two for a full coverage. Leveling was very poor! I was almost ashamed to give this one as a gift but didn't have time to strip and repaint it - I doubt if anything else would have stuck to the "plasticky" coating.

In summation, If I had it to do over again, I would have used Rustoleum's American Accents on all of the projects. It was by far the easiest to use and gave the best results! Too bad it only comes in pints and quarts and I can only find it locally in the pint sizes and limited colors (premixed).

Jim
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Old 12-26-2007, 09:31 AM   #98
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For shelving, it is hard to top the waterbourne enamels from SW or BM. (ProClassic from SW, or Impervo from BM.) Next time you have a similar project, try them out. They leave an oil-like finish with few brush marks (if applied correctly), and once cured, no sticking.

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Old 01-04-2008, 11:15 AM   #99
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I have read all the comments in this forum. And I'm glad I did that before I start my painting. I'm totally new to painting and was about to go with CR recommendation and use Behr. Of course, I wouldn't know if painting is hard or Behr is causing me trouble. I'll try SW or BM based on your suggestion. Thanks to everybody here.

Do you have any recommendation which SW or BM to use for the cabinets in the kitchen and for all the doors in the house?
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:02 PM   #100
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Both SW and BM make Waterbourne enamels. (SW ProClassic or BM Impervo) These are excellent water-base finishes that give a nice oil-like look. Enamels are much better than paints for items like that, as they give a nice, hard finish, instead of the more "rubbery" texture of paint.

However, neither the SW or BM go on exactly like paint. I have used the SW ProClassic and have a couple of tips:

1) Work fast. ProClassic does not maintain a wet edge very long.
2) NEVER "touch up" wet. Because the finish tacks up quickly, if you see a "thin spot", fix it on the next coat.
3) It looks terrible wet. It looks thin, and not very transparent. As it dries, it looks MUCH better.
4) Don't overbrush. ProClassic has great leveling properties, so as long as you prevent drips, the finish itself will take care of being nice and smooth. Apply it with one stroke, go back over it with another, and move on.

I believe Impervo has a different set of quirks.

For either finish, a quality paint brush is key. A popular one is a 2 1/2" angle-sash Nylon Purdy, but really you should use whatever top-quality brush you feel comfortable with (Purdy, Wooster and Corona are three popular brands.) Don't be scared by a $15 or so price tag. With proper care, it will last you forever, and will save you TONS of aggravation over a cheap brush.

Lastly, prep work is key. You may want to open a new thread describing what sort of finish is on there now, and folks can tell you what sort of prep you need to do before putting the final finish on there.

SirWired
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:43 PM   #101
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Thanks SirWired. These are great tips.
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Old 01-07-2008, 03:04 AM   #102
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So after reading every post in this thread, I feel like a total newbie. I've bought 7 gallons of Behr paint from the local Big Box Store, with mixed results. The off-white and light lavender paint I was reasonably pleased with. I haven't noticed any major problems with either, save for a few hard-to-see brush strokes in the white.

Unfortunately, I can't really say anything positive about my kitchen, which I painted dark red. At first I chalked it up to the fact that dark red is a difficult color, but after reading the posts here... well, let's just say that the next paint I buy will be from the small, local Ben Moore retailer.
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Old 01-15-2008, 10:57 AM   #103
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I'm amazed. I've used Behr paint and have never had any problems and like the way it turned out. I am a very meticulous painter...perhaps that has something to do with the way the jobs i've done in my home with Behr have turned out. If that stuff is garbage and I've had success with it, i can't wait to use some of the other stuff to see what the difference is.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:18 AM   #104
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Behr/HD go to the bank with the fact that the average DIYr has never used good paint. The way it comes off the brush, holds a wet edge, flows without runs/sags, flows to a smooth finish, not to mention better coverage and GOOD advice if needed from a real paint store,
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:56 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryh3 View Post
Just curious. What is the failure rate of Behr paint?
That's a hard one to answer jerry

There's no data collection agency on this, and data is extremely hard to check

First off, I would like to say that even with a horrific 25% failure rate, that means a 75% non-failure rate
So it's possible to use a "horrific" product and get "just fine" results
No product could fail every single time and stay on the market

Also please keep in mind that a professional painter can do more painting in a week than some DIYers do in a lifetime
This is not an exaggeration by any means...I'm just saying we paint a lot
And of course, some DIYers paint more than others....
But by the shear numbers of paint jobs, you must give a little edge to the professional painter

Their job is to get in and out as quickly as possible, while still doing a professional quality job with quality materials that make the painter look good

If they could save any money by using certain products, they (and I) certainly would
Time = Money

Behr can work OK in best case scenarios
I know this because I've used it
Many times
It still has it's problems, believe me
It is hard to work with, that means it takes longer
It doesn't cover well, that means it takes longer and need more coats...and takes more time (therefore costs me more money)
And frankly the finish simply isn't that good

For a DIYer, they often say '"it's my labor, so I don't care"
My response to that is, "Would you like to spend all weekend painting your bathroom, or would you like to be done with it by 2PM on Saturday, and do what you want on Sunday?"
Think about it

But we are (or rather I am supposed to be) talking about failures here

Failures include failure to cover and failure to hide...and a few others...
But adhesion failure is the worst
That's when I often get the call
These are tough to quantify, because there other factors that contribute to failure
But when time and time again, you are called into homes that have massive paint failures, and time and time again the product that was used was the same one, over and over, you start to wonder
Then there's the ones where they never call, and aren't about to do it over themselves, and just live with it

In my experience, I'd have to say that in the real world it fails between 20 and 40 percent of the time, and 25% is probably a "safe" number
If for some reason we could get the actual numbers (which we will not), and it was shown to be 10%, I wouldn't be too surprised (well, maybe a little), I'm sure that I personally get a lot of calls on this type of situation, so my outlook may be skewed
It doesn't matter though
Even ten percent is just to darn high
That is huge
I'm not putting my name on it, and I'm not recommending it to anyone
How could I?

Needless to say, I don't use it anymore
And it is hard enough to work with, and make look good (acceptable), that I need to increase my bid to homeowners 30-50% if they "insist" on Behr
...and they must provide the paint

So if it's a $1000 job with me including premium quality paints, it's $1300-$1500 (depending) plus paint, if they want the Behr
The stuff is just that bad

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