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Old 05-27-2007, 09:19 PM   #61
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Commenting on Behr Paints


I was just about to go to Home Depot and buy 10 gallons of Behr exterior paint. Although I have a lot of prep work to do on the exterior before painting, Home Depot has a sale on Behr which expires tomorrow. Fortunately, I decided to do some research.....and came across this thread.

I had my front porch screened in last fall and painted the new construction with Behr paints. It was fairly cool, at the low end of the recommended painting temperature, while I was working on the porch. Being completely inexperienced with painting, I thought the thick, gooeyness of the paint was because of the temperature. I used a tinted primer and still needed two coats (I chose a fairly dark color). It was all trim work and took forever.

(Now I am concerned about the color fading. The porch is on the north and doesn't get a lot of light, but the west side gets pretty baked in the afternoon.)

Do folks also recommend Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams as best EXTERIOR paints?

THANK YOU for saving me from messing up my big paint job! It's going to take me a long time to paint my house, and I would have wept serious tears if I had found this out AFTER I painted.

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Old 05-28-2007, 08:09 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firsthomegal View Post
Do folks also recommend Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams as best EXTERIOR paints?
Ben Moore and Sherwin Williams, along with Pittsburgh Paints, have some of the best premium lines of exterior paints, and are well known enough National Brands that one, two or all should be available just about anywhere in the United States and Canada

Keep in mind, those Brands also make cheap paints
The premium lines are the best they offer, and well worth the extra money
And also there are some great Regional Brands out there
Obviously we can't really recommend those, as we don't know where they are available, and don't get to try many unless they are available where we are, so generally you won't see them mentioned here
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:34 PM   #63
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I checked out the Pittsburgh Paints store in town. Unfortunately, the woman working didn't know ANYTHING. When I asked her about power washers and cleaners, she just blinked and looked confused. Strange for a company with such a strong reputation.

So I checked out a Ben Moore dealer. Had answers to all but one of my questions (to which he actually referred me to Home Depot) and was very helpful. He quoted 10 gallons of his top line at $36 a gallon (Pittsburgh was $46). I think I'll go Ben Moore (SW store is too far away).

Thanks for pointing me the right direction.
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Old 06-15-2007, 03:31 PM   #64
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It appears that most of the posters in this thread who hate Behr are paint contractors and their gripes are, mostly, that Behr is hard to apply.

My questions to them are:
1 - Which grade of Behr are you using? The cheap stuff or the good stuff?
2 - How does the paint hold up after application?

As contractors, I'm sure you need something easy to apply, quick to cover and inexpensive to buy. That's not a criticism. I'd want that, too, if I made my living painting.

As a consumer, though, I'm more interested in how long my paint is going to retain its color and how long will it remain bonded and smooth. I want a paint that can be washed and can take a beating. I want a paint that I can depend upon after the contractor has gone to his next job. I want a paint that will last for many years, not just until next summer.

Is there anyone out there who can answer these questions?
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Old 06-15-2007, 09:23 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyTyde
Is there anyone out there who can answer these questions?
Yes
First off, welcome to the forums
Now. on to the questions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyTyde
It appears that most of the posters in this thread who hate Behr are paint contractors and their gripes are, mostly, that Behr is hard to apply.
Ehhh....that's one of many gripes
It is not the biggest, no

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyTyde
My questions to them are:
1 - Which grade of Behr are you using? The cheap stuff or the good stuff?
I'm sorry, you'll have to explain that one for me
I didn't know Behr had a good line and a cheap line
Which it which?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyTyde
2 - How does the paint hold up after application?
Really, really badly
It has a very high failure rate, especially under less than perfect conditions
Please keep in mind, even a 30% failure rate means 70% didn't
Those 70% may have been perfectly satisfied
But is it worth the risk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyTyde
As contractors, I'm sure you need something easy to apply, quick to cover and inexpensive to buy.
Essentially, yeah
The quicker I can do a quality job with the least amount of expense, the better I can serve my customers

Behr does none of the above
It's not quick to apply, it covers horribly, and it takes so many more coats, it's not inexpensive to buy
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyTyde
As a consumer, though, I'm more interested in how long my paint is going to retain its color and how long will it remain bonded and smooth.
...yes, those are extremely important factors to a quality painting contractor
Those are very high on my list of requirements
Again, Behr falls far short of the mark to be considered even average in those depts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyTyde
I want a paint that can be washed and can take a beating. I want a paint that I can depend upon after the contractor has gone to his next job. I want a paint that will last for many years, not just until next summer.
Exactly
Which is why I don't use or recommend Behr
It can't take regular use, never mind abuse or a beating
It's simply not that good

For some reason you seem to think your objectives as a DIY painter contradict the goals of a professional painter
They don't
All the things you mention are important to me as a professional

Granted, there are many hacks out there, who don't care if the paint job " last(s) for many years, .... just until next summer"
Honestly, many of them use Behr
So I'm not really sure where you are coming from

Truly, there is no difference between a pros goals and a DIYers goals
Even the "time is money" thing we contractor are stuck on
True for us? yes, very!
True for DIYers?
Well, would you rather spend all day Saturday and all day Sunday painting the bathroom, or be done by 1:30 on Saturday, and have the rest of the weekend to do as you wish?
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Old 06-16-2007, 06:29 AM   #66
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Well Said.
As a former user of Behr solid stain and DIY, I won't ever buy any of their products again.
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Old 06-16-2007, 12:26 PM   #67
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Thanks for the response.

OK. My bad. I didn't notice that all of Behr's exterior paint is Premium Plus, with the price differences being for the sheen only.

I'm sorry if I offended you by talking about pro's interest in ease and speed of the job, but I think I said that wasn't a criticism.

You gotta admit that the Behr literature, along with the high CR rating and a neighbor who is happy with Behr is pretty strong impetus for me to buy Behr. The talk about the "Nano technology" in their paint, which I've read a little about in the past, and how that guards against mold and mildew, etc. is very convincing. However, in the end, I want the best paint that I can buy and there are a lot of opinions out there about which is the very best.

So, here's the question for you, Mr. Shift:
With no consideration for price, and for a house in Upstate South Carolina where humidity is not as high as in the lowlands, but where it gets into the 60 to 70% range in the summer, and on a house that faces north with big oak trees in the back casting shadows on the rear of the house, and for white trim only, what paint would you apply? And, to make it even more precise, pretend that it is YOUR home.

I've read all of your posts and your opinion will carry a lot of credibility with me and I appreciate your willingness to share your opinion with us neophytes.
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Old 06-16-2007, 01:16 PM   #68
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It is hard to argue against a giant marketing steamroller with seemingly unlimited funds
I can only say that they didn't become so rich by volume alone, the products they sell suffer
They are not interested in providing quality tools and products to consumers
They are interested in providing "good enough most of the time for occasional consumers that don't know the difference" tools and products
They are, however, a brilliantly marketed company, worthy of respect and study for their strategy

I can understand there are plenty of satisfied customers of Behr out there
Like I said, even a horrible 30% failure rate means 70% went fine

It is funny though, I've painted over perfectly fine Behr paint with the same color Impervo, and even the Homeowner who was perfectly happy with the Behr says "I can tell the difference from across the room"

For an Exterior as you described, I would have no problem using the Ben Moore Moor-Glow/Gloss line, or the Pittsburgh Manor Hall line
Even on my own home

But, however, when I did paint my home last year, with all the choices I had, I used Sherwin Williams Duration
I love the way it works, sticks, stays, remains colorful (or remains white), repels dirt, cleans up, and protects...even on (or especially on) less than perfect surfaces)

Some are close or almost as good or just fine, great even
But if I had my druthers, it'd be Duration for exterior trim pretty much every time
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Old 06-16-2007, 08:50 PM   #69
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Another neophyte would love a recommendation on which Ben Moore line you would use for the body of a home. I haven't bought yet, but will on Monday. It's wood siding, North Dakota summers (85-95 degrees, lots of wind, and moderate humidity) and North Dakota winters (sub zero, lots of wind). Home takes quite a beating from the sun on three sides.

(Sherwin dealer is not in my area.)
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Old 06-16-2007, 10:30 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by firsthomegal View Post
I haven't bought yet, but will on Monday.
Congratulations!

Quote:
Originally Posted by firsthomegal View Post
which Ben Moore line you would use for the body of a home.
It's wood siding,
Ben Moore's MoorGlo Soft Gloss (Blue label)
Ben Moore has the unfortunate habit of naming their different sheens different names so they sound like different lines, but if you want something flatter, the same line in flat would be MoorLife (green label), and low luster is MoorGard (red label)

I'd go with the Soft Gloss though, unless you really want flat
It's not real shiny...like a satin or "Soft Gloss" as they say
I'd say 95%+ do


Quote:
Originally Posted by firsthomegal View Post
North Dakota summers (85-95 degrees, lots of wind, and moderate humidity) and North Dakota winters (sub zero, lots of wind). Home takes quite a beating from the sun on three sides.
I spent some time in Flasher
Big sky out there...
I remember watching a huge thunderstorm roll by miles away
Turned on the news, they said it was in South Dakota damaging crops
Now Flasher is south, but still, that's a long way to see a thunderstorm roll by
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:31 PM   #71
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Thanks again, Slick.
Based upon your recommendation, I decided to use SW Duration semi-gloss exterior to paint the trim on my house. BUT ..... I called the local Sherwin Williams store and asked about two five gallon kits. The salesman said "I'll give you contractor price, which is a great deal." I thanked him and asked "How much is that?" He replied "only $50 per gallon."
Once I caught my breath, I told him I'd check back with him.
Does that sound like a fair price to you?
The Pittsburg dealer told me he'd sell me five gallon kits of Manor Hall for $165. I haven't called Ben Moore, yet.
So, if you believe the Duration is worth $50 a gallon, I'll sacrifice a few six packs this month and buy it. Whattaya think?
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:02 PM   #72
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Yikes! I thought paint prices in "enviro-whacko" California were horrific...
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:23 PM   #73
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Well...my first thought is that is not really the "contractor" price
But I suppose it could be
SW doesn't have national pricing, and prices can vary and they are very much "what the market will bear" in their pricing

Around here they are expensive (non-discount around 50) compared to Manor Hall or Moorglo
I've had other contractors from other parts of the country say it's the other way around

Anyway...$50 to $33..huh?
Hmmm....

1) What kind of shape is the are in?
Scraped? maybe needs some primer? Lots of peel? No peel? Just old and faded? Just needs a color change?

2)Are you planning on doing two coats?
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Old 06-18-2007, 11:15 PM   #74
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Just old and faded. No peeling or chipping. Has been pressure washed. White window frames, doors, porch rails, etc. No boxing. Will two coat if one doesn't seem to cover.
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Old 06-19-2007, 06:34 AM   #75
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Hmmm...with the Duration you'll only need one coat
The Manor Hall you might be OK with one coat

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