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Old 01-19-2013, 08:13 PM   #1
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Combination of Paint Issues


As part of an ongoing renovation, I have removed "picture molding" and chair rail from a living room that measures 18 x 20. Home was built in 1965, but I think the room had a 2nd layer of sheetrock hung at some point, and that is when the moldings were added.
The paint issues I'm finding are not making any sense to me.
In order of the pictures:
A & B) Removed picture molding - nailed on, except in the corners where it was glued.
C) I scraped "loose" paint everywhere there are nicks or dents or nail holes
D) Paint comes off very easily! This spot is about 8" wide x 12" long
E) More paint lifted - about 18" wide x 12" long
F) Again, a large area where the paint just peeled away!

But it seems that I'm only taking off one layer of paint - not years worth!

Also, there is roller fuzz everywhere - does that get covered with the next primer and paint or is it best to scrape or sand it off?

Professional sheetrockers will be doing the repair work. (They're using a "hot" fast set mud compound in place of Guardz.)

Should I go over everything with Guardz before they start?
Is there a "bonding" primer I should use before I paint (BM Regal or Aura) that will help? Something like Zinsser "Peel Stop" for interior?

Any remedies or product suggestions are appreciated!
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:55 PM   #2
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Combination of Paint Issues


In looking at your pictures, I would tear all the sheetrock off to the studs and re-rock it. That peeling paint would drive me nuts. Of course I am much better at demolition than dealing with picky stuff, your mileage may vary.

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Old 01-19-2013, 10:09 PM   #3
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Combination of Paint Issues


Hope you have plenty of free time to get all that off.
I'd also be looking at the big picture and concider removing the sheetrock.
Remove an outlet cover to see if you can see what's under that sheetrock.
If It's an old house I would bet someone went over old cracked plaster.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:57 AM   #4
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Combination of Paint Issues


It looks to me like a previous owner either A) used extremely cheap paint, B) used a coating that was not compatible with what was already on the wall, C) did insufficient prep work to the substrate, or some combination of the three.

You don't need to scrape all of that layer off, just that which is loose. I would pole sand the walls with 100 grit paper and then run a sharp-ish 4 inch drywall knife over the walls and see what happens. Don't work too hard at this; if it doesn't come off fairly easily with a putty knife, then it is fine to paint over it. Hopefully you will find that coat mostly well adhered, and if not then your sheetrock guy can feather out the areas where you have scraped.

A bonding primer might not be a bad idea, again depending on how much of the coating you scrape off. Bonding primer won't help stick down previous layers anymore than any other paint, but it itself sticks very well to a surface. As such, if you find the top coating well adhered overall there is not much benefit in a bonding primer, but if you scrape clean large areas, I would thoroughly pole sand those areas again, have your repairs made, and then coat with a bonding primer to avoid having the same problem in the future.

Can be a tough project, and is a clear example of how one bad, or careless paint job can spoil the integrity of the substrate.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:55 AM   #5
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Combination of Paint Issues


James, tearing down to the studs seems a bit extreme to me. What you have pic'd is pretty standard fare. Where you have the peeling looks more like plaster than board.
Couple things,
Do not put mud over the areas where the brown drywall paper is exposed without a coat of either oil primer or Gardz. You WILL NOT get a good patch without.
Where the paint is peeling, try to get a thin, flexible spackle blade under and carefully remove the loosest of stuff. Then a coat of Gardz or Peel Stop will help lock down the loose edges. As Windows said, nothing is going to help the current coat bond to the wall better, but it's really only a problem because you disturbed it. When you're all done it should be fine unless you're really whacking at the walls.

If the job was mine to do, I would take a full sheet of eighty weight paper folded in four and hand sand the walls completely. This will remove the roller fuzz, prepare the damage, and create a flush surface to get smooth, clean skim coats. I would then use Gardz on all the damaged areas, then do my spackling. You can then prime with any quality primer and apply finish coats.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:23 AM   #6
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Combination of Paint Issues


I will also add that tearing out the drywall is silly
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:56 PM   #7
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OK Your right, just drywall right over the old stuff. You will have great sound proofing in that room. If I had to hand sand that entire room, I would end up in the funny farm. By the way, You sure nailed that one Joe!
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:26 PM   #8
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Combination of Paint Issues


I did my living room recently with similar issues and sanded the walls first before any drywall repairs were done. That way I got most of the loose paint off before using Guardz over the exposed areas and edges. Then mudded, and sanded again. It blended the peeled paint areas perfectly so you can't tell anymore
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:39 PM   #9
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Combination of Paint Issues


A piece of 80 paper will cut through that stuff like butter, and hand sanding an average size room should take a half hour or less. You don't even need to apply much pressure, just basically glide it across the surface. A sanding pole is too impersonal, and doesn't get you close enough to see or feel what you're dealing with. I find that sanding poles miss a lot.
There's nothing more aggravating than bits of stuff on the wall that interferes with a spackle job.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Professional sheetrockers will be doing the repair work. (They're using a "hot" fast set mud compound in place of Guardz.)
First, FYI, "hot" and "setting" mean the same thing. There is drying compound, and there is setting compound, aka hot mud.

How fast it sets is of no benefit to you. Any setting compound gets hard before drying compound (assuming a thick coat) because it hardens before it dries. Drying compound will not harden until it's dry.

Setting compound is stronger than drying compound.

Second, no compound is a replacement for Gardz. I would apply Gardz first, myself, before they come.

Last edited by jeffnc; 01-20-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:53 PM   #11
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The issue with the mud boils down to one thing, water, and no matter how fast they set or hard they get, they go on wet. The water in the compound will evaporate off the top AND absorb into the brown drywall paper, and it will vaporize back there and damage any patch that goes over it. Oil primer or Gardz must be used to prevent the moisture from going into the brown paper.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:51 PM   #12
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I kinda doubt there is plaster by mid 60s almost everything was drywall but possible. LOL I can just see me telling a customer paint peeling we need to tear the wall out. Really looks to me like some DIY gone bad wrong materials, little skill = what you see.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:06 PM   #13
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Please - joe c , jagens and anybody who constantly advises people to tear the walls out. Stop it.
just because you don't know how to repair- doesn't mean it can't be done.
And tearing out the walls- which means redoing or replacing all the trim too is just irresponsible advice.
Imo of course- but it is a very educated opinion.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:14 PM   #14
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There's one worse Brush "just drywall over it" then nothing fits.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsheridan View Post
A piece of 80 paper will cut through that stuff like butter, and hand sanding an average size room should take a half hour or less. You don't even need to apply much pressure, just basically glide it across the surface. A sanding pole is too impersonal, and doesn't get you close enough to see or feel what you're dealing with. I find that sanding poles miss a lot.
There's nothing more aggravating than bits of stuff on the wall that interferes with a spackle job.
I agree I rarely use the pole sander I prefer to hand sanding it does a better job and doesn't take long.These walls can definitely be fixed.I have done much worse as I'm sure most all of the pro's here have.JS is absolutely right prime those torn areas before you try to patch them.

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