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Old 12-01-2011, 06:09 PM   #31
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can I latex paint over fresh oil stain


The only problem with more coats of stain, and this from discussions with floor guys, is that the successive coats of stain will not penetrate and will not adhere. Once the clear coat goes over and bonds to the unbonded stain, the possibility of chipping is real. I only know this because I did a job once (for an employer) where multiple coats of stain were called for and in a discussion with a floor finisher he told me that he wouldn't guarantee it for that reason. He encounters similar situations doing floors.

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Old 12-01-2011, 06:46 PM   #32
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The only problem with more coats of stain, and this from discussions with floor guys, is that the successive coats of stain will not penetrate and will not adhere. Once the clear coat goes over and bonds to the unbonded stain, the possibility of chipping is real. I only know this because I did a job once (for an employer) where multiple coats of stain were called for and in a discussion with a floor finisher he told me that he wouldn't guarantee it for that reason. He encounters similar situations doing floors.
Interesting. I never would have guessed.

I guess it begs the question of whether you can rub down the stain with something to make it soluble again, such as acetone (with adequate precautions) and then add that extra coat or two. Perhaps not.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:13 PM   #33
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But if its tinted varnish, its in the finish...

Ok , last time I'll bring it up.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:37 PM   #34
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But if its tinted varnish, its in the finish...

Ok , last time I'll bring it up.
I don't think my point would apply to your suggestion. I think it would be fine, it's basically just a tinted clear finish. I meant to add that to my post but forgot.
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:14 PM   #35
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Wow...32 responses - and still counting! Never let it be said we didn't rise to the occasion and present poor Jen with almost every possible system available...latex paints, oil paints, epoxy modified, poly fortified, tinted varnishes, sealers, bonding primers, 2 part epoxies (not the water kind)...(remind me to bring y'all up to date on the wonderful advances in water-borne epoxies...amazing products)....(that's probably best left for another thread though).

Jen, I gotta agree with Joe and the Brush Jockey...I think the steps look great, perhaps a little rustic, but they look good none-the-less. I also agree with Brush Jock that you may be surprised at how much a couple coats of clear over those steps would tone things down and even hide some of the "splotches" you describe.

Having said that, Matt asked if you'd ever considered carpet - maybe you should. Not necessarily the wall-to-wall kind, but possibly a runner that is installed over only half the surface area, with the exposed varnished wood on each end. The reason(s) you may want to consider this is because of that handsome beast laying at the foot of the stairs. Dogs have a hard enough time on varnished floors, not to mention getting up and down varnished steps (and being the dog-lover that I am, I know it only gets worse as they get older) - BUT - the other issue is a dog's nails are brutal on even the hardest, most resilient of finishes. By varnishing these steps, you may be creating a on-going maintenance problem far beyond what you have bargained for.

Consider this, and let us know what you think - by then, we'll come up with several other systems for you to consider.

Ric

PS - Not that I'm recommending it, but I'm pretty sure you can buy oil paints in CT.

Last edited by ric knows paint; 12-01-2011 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:30 PM   #36
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Bought toys for kids I do not know today. No crazed woman sprayed me with pepper spray to gain advantage. I dropped them all off at the fire station. I guess US Marines will play Santa and a kid that might only have hoped for nothing will get something reasonably cool. Of course I spent more than expected. Name one person who does not this time of year.

A bought some stuffed things but not one Behr product for friends. Just thought about it though. If I bought quarts of Behr and gave them to my friends for NY gifts? Could get a reaction. Of course it would have to be the primer and paint in one product. Exterior or interior though?

Actually I could not bring myself to buy the crap.

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Old 12-01-2011, 09:45 PM   #37
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wow. I'm overwhelmed with the responses! I dont know what way to go. I'm thinking about trying another coat of stain, but to me, its already absorbed what its going to. I feel like i'd just be wiping it all off again. I will try one step tomorrow just to give my original plan one last chance. Tinted varnish sounds scary and confusing to me. I'm pretty sure thats what was on these floors before I started this mess....and it probably would have been the answer but I'm not sure if I could get it as dark as I wanted and now I dont know if it will cover the stripes. I really dont know where to get this item....can I just put some stain into the poly I've already got and call it tinted poly? The look I was going for was this:

a nice dark finish thats mostly one color! I hate the stripes they make me dizzy. as far as carpet, we had a runner over the old beat up steps and it was very difficult to keep clean. I'm a neat freak so swiffering wood steps is much easier. The dog definetly is doing a number on the upstairs floors as you can see (appears to be the same varnished pine), so that is a legitimate concern, however we had the steps bare for about 6 months before this nightmare and it seemed ok. SO tomorrow I will try another coat of stain on one step. if that doesnt work maybe I'll try mixing up a lidogirl custom tinted poly concoction and try it on a sample board. (not that sample boards have proven trustworthy). then I guess I'll start picking out a paint color. keep the conversation going though, at least I feel like I have some support through this difficult time!
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:11 PM   #38
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wow. I'm overwhelmed with the responses! I dont know what way to go. I'm thinking about trying another coat of stain, but to me, its already absorbed what its going to. I feel like i'd just be wiping it all off again. I will try one step tomorrow just to give my original plan one last chance. Tinted varnish sounds scary and confusing to me. I'm pretty sure thats what was on these floors before I started this mess....and it probably would have been the answer but I'm not sure if I could get it as dark as I wanted and now I dont know if it will cover the stripes. I really dont know where to get this item....can I just put some stain into the poly I've already got and call it tinted poly? The look I was going for was this:

a nice dark finish thats mostly one color! I hate the stripes they make me dizzy. as far as carpet, we had a runner over the old beat up steps and it was very difficult to keep clean. I'm a neat freak so swiffering wood steps is much easier. The dog definetly is doing a number on the upstairs floors as you can see (appears to be the same varnished pine), so that is a legitimate concern, however we had the steps bare for about 6 months before this nightmare and it seemed ok. SO tomorrow I will try another coat of stain on one step. if that doesnt work maybe I'll try mixing up a lidogirl custom tinted poly concoction and try it on a sample board. (not that sample boards have proven trustworthy). then I guess I'll start picking out a paint color. keep the conversation going though, at least I feel like I have some support through this difficult time!
Yes, you can. Obviously, the poly and stain must both be oil (which kinda settles the question as to whether you can buy oil paints in CT), But it's not gonna give the mostly opaque finish you want - Based on that picture, and your desire to hide almost all the wood grain, you're gonna need a whole lot more pigment than what most tinted varnishes are going to be able to deliver. You want to hear one more suggestion? Call your local paint store and see if he/she carries an alkyd gloss floor enamel in a clear base. If so, see if his/her color chart has a similar color to that which you are tying to achieve - then have him/her tint the clear base at about 1/2 the formula. Being mixed into a clear base, this should still give the color you want, but still be transparent enough that you can still tell it's wood you've painted over. It's probably going to take 2 coat to get the effect you want. Allow to dry, sand lightly, remove sanding dust, then apply a couple coats of clear poly and you should get the finish in the pic...(whew)...
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:40 PM   #39
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That's a good point about dogs and varnished stairs...

A year ago I was painting the stairway in preparation for putting the house on the market. We had hardwood polyurethaned stairs and they had just been redone. We also had a 14 year old golden retreiver who was getting a bit frail. He would no longer come upstairs to sleep with us but would stay downstairs. He would, however, come upstairs when he needed on rare occasion to go out in the middle of the night to relieve himself as he had lost his voice. It was worth it to him to labor up the steps instead of going inside. Usually I would hear him struggling with the first few steps and would hope out of bed and go let him out.

Well, I had left a gallon of paint on the stairs, tucked to the side with a dropcloth, and he came up the stairs and I did not hear him. He slipped halfway up and slid down, taking the gallon of paint with him on the way, the lid of which was not on firmly. I hear him go down, claws scrabbling on the stairs, and I arrived on the scene to see him sprawled in a gallon of spilled paint at the foot of the stairs. At 2 am. He had been transformed into an 80 lb. paintbrush. Think of how long it takes to clean a simple roller and then imagine washing paint out of a very furry dog. The hours it took to clean him and the floor is seared into my memory.

Since then I have never left a can of paint less than tightly closed. Live and learn.
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:24 AM   #40
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can I latex paint over fresh oil stain


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That's a good point about dogs and varnished stairs...

A year ago I was painting the stairway in preparation for putting the house on the market. We had hardwood polyurethaned stairs and they had just been redone. We also had a 14 year old golden retreiver who was getting a bit frail. He would no longer come upstairs to sleep with us but would stay downstairs. He would, however, come upstairs when he needed on rare occasion to go out in the middle of the night to relieve himself as he had lost his voice. It was worth it to him to labor up the steps instead of going inside. Usually I would hear him struggling with the first few steps and would hope out of bed and go let him out.

Well, I had left a gallon of paint on the stairs, tucked to the side with a dropcloth, and he came up the stairs and I did not hear him. He slipped halfway up and slid down, taking the gallon of paint with him on the way, the lid of which was not on firmly. I hear him go down, claws scrabbling on the stairs, and I arrived on the scene to see him sprawled in a gallon of spilled paint at the foot of the stairs. At 2 am. He had been transformed into an 80 lb. paintbrush. Think of how long it takes to clean a simple roller and then imagine washing paint out of a very furry dog. The hours it took to clean him and the floor is seared into my memory.

Since then I have never left a can of paint less than tightly closed. Live and learn.
That's certainly the way to learn
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:41 AM   #41
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Ric, the idea of the clear base is a great example of thinking outside of the box. Kind of like reducing oil finish 50% with thinner and using it as a wash/"stain", which can produce a real nice effect. However, for some reason I don't think it will work. I think it will just be an opaque finish at half strentgh the chosen color. But, I could be wrong. I think BJ's idea of tinted varnish is probably the only way to stay with the stained look. But, could you push them far enough to satisfy OP with that method? I think what you need is a old time floor guy, or an old time faux decorator who carries a tint tray, someone who can see the steps themselves who has a solid understanding of color and finishes. I'm sure OP's head is swirling at this point.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:04 AM   #42
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The Benjamin Moore store told me they only carry the latex floor paint beacause you can't sell oil in Ct anymore. I didnt at the time think to question the fact that you can get oil primer, stain , poly etc... however he doesnt sell the alkyd stuff. (how do you even say that). I could call sherwin williams I suppose but I dont think their website listed that they even make an oil base floor paint. other than that I'm out of paint stores besided HD and Lowes. I'm so frustrated and dont know what direction to go. I just want close my eyes and make this go away!
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:53 PM   #43
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one more question. when I put the stain on it looks beautiful, but when I wipe off the "excess" it goes back to looking all striped. Why cant I just let the stain dry without wiping it off and then poly over that?
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Old 12-02-2011, 02:55 PM   #44
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Lido, you can brush stain on with no wipe. However, read post #31 before you do. You may have bonding issues.
If you decide to go with floor enamel, a good bonding primer (Zinsser 123) and two coats of latex floor enamel will be fine.
There's a lot of confusion as to what oil is available and where. I think there's even more as to the future of it. You're fortunate you only have to deal with it as you do, we have to deal with it on a regular basis. If it's frustrating, remember that when you go to vote. It's the government that is shutting it all down. It's they, not the paint companies, that are limiting your choices. What are they going to start limiting down the road? What you can eat? What you can drive? What, and how much, fuel you can use? Etc. Think about it, this is just the beginning. If we accept this, we have to accept it all. Good Luck! I think we have given about all the options there are.

BTW, it's pronounced AL-KID

Last edited by jsheridan; 12-02-2011 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:30 PM   #45
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Lido, you can brush stain on with no wipe. However, read post #31 before you do. You may have bonding issues.
If you decide to go with floor enamel, a good bonding primer (Zinsser 123) and two coats of latex floor enamel will be fine.
There's a lot of confusion as to what oil is available and where. I think there's even more as to the future of it. You're fortunate you only have to deal with it as you do, we have to deal with it on a regular basis. If it's frustrating, remember that when you go to vote. It's the government that is shutting it all down. It's they, not the paint companies, that are limiting your choices. What are they going to start limiting down the road? What you can eat? What you can drive? What, and how much, fuel you can use? Etc. Think about it, this is just the beginning. If we accept this, we have to accept it all. Good Luck! I think we have given about all the options there are.

BTW, it's pronounced AL-KID
Well said, Joe...well said.

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