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Old 05-04-2013, 05:10 PM   #1
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


We are now in the final stage of repacing some of the v-groove siding on our house and need to select a brand of exterior stain.

We want a product that will look good, and hold up for several years while protecting the cedar siding. Good application is important, as well.

I will need to cover new siding as well as old siding-that is stained in a light cedar color.

In my last thread I was told that one coat of a solid stain will give me a semi solid look. Do I need to prime prior to applying a sild stain?

I am considering using Zar solid based on the advise I received in my last thread. Any other feed back regarding the Zar product?

Or, possibly Cabot semi-solid oil based? Consumer reports suggests Cabot's does not hold up well over time.

Your advise is greatly appreciated!

Regards-John

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Old 05-04-2013, 07:24 PM   #2
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


One thing I have noticed about ZAR solid, is that is has very little sheen differential on non uniform surfaces. A lot of solid stains develop a sheen if more than one coat is applied, or its applied over existing stain. I like FLOOD solid too, but it has a huge sheen differential, and has to have two coats to even out. Even then it can flash if the surface isn't uniform. ZAR stays flat even with two coats, and Is designed to adhere to existing stains, rather than always needing to hit raw,or nearly raw, wood to perform to spec.
I have has good results with one coat ZAR on non uniform surfaces.

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Old 05-05-2013, 01:00 AM   #3
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


Why wouldn't you just use a semi-solid stain if that is the look you want?

I am not up on the best brands for semi-solid stains these days but used to use Cabot and Olympic. I would not touch the latter with a ten foot pole and Cabot has gone box store too. Hopefully others will step in with recs. Sikkens seems popular and I believe it comes in semi-solid stains.

I think SW Acrylic Woodscapes Solid Stain is pretty amazing stuff but I worry you achieving anything in terms of protection thinning or wimp layering it for visual effect. I think Deckscapes comes in a semi-solid.

Consumer Reports has zilch credibility anymore. And to answer your question, solid stains are self-priming.

Last edited by user1007; 05-05-2013 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:20 AM   #4
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jodebg View Post
We are now in the final stage of repacing some of the v-groove siding on our house and need to select a brand of exterior stain.

We want a product that will look good, and hold up for several years while protecting the cedar siding. Good application is important, as well.

I will need to cover new siding as well as old siding-that is stained in a light cedar color.

In my last thread I was told that one coat of a solid stain will give me a semi solid look. Do I need to prime prior to applying a sild stain?

I am considering using Zar solid based on the advise I received in my last thread. Any other feed back regarding the Zar product?

Or, possibly Cabot semi-solid oil based? Consumer reports suggests Cabot's does not hold up well over time.

Your advise is greatly appreciated!

Regards-John
sd answered the question, I believe
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:30 AM   #5
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


Does a solid exterior stain hold up better and longer than a semi solid?

And, does an oil, modified oil, or acrylic stain offer better endurance and better application?

Thanks again.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:01 AM   #6
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


Also, is there a chance the solid stain will peel, like paint?
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:12 AM   #7
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


From your description a semi solid stain won't work in this case. Semi-solid is..well not solid. If you have previously stained old siding next to new siding it will have to be covered solid to look right. A semi will give you different tones over old/vs/new. Unless you want to strip/restore the old. That's also why I think a stain that dries very flat ( no sheen) will be best, because the old stained siding can turn out shinier than the new wood.
No, if a full coat of solid stain is applied it will be solid.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:21 AM   #8
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jodebg View Post
Does a solid exterior stain hold up better and longer than a semi solid?

And, does an oil, modified oil, or acrylic stain offer better endurance and better application?
I will answer both your questions best I can in one response.

Will a solid stain peel like paint? It can depending on the quality of the product (which is why you should steer clear of cheaper box store stain), the length of time it has been on, the kind of weather extremes it is exposed to, and of course your surface prep is the most critical factor. Either paint or solid stain will peel quickly if there is poor adhesion because of a dirty or shiny surface---in spite of some absurd recent product claims.

As you move up the chart I showed, the more pigment and resins stay on the surface and is therefore more exposed to the elements. A semi-solid may outlast a solid but quality solid stains should give you 8 years (or so depending on prep, climate, sun exposure, etc. I believe Woodscapes is warranted for 8 years.). And the wood may actually weather more and dry out faster with a semi-solid then a solid because there is less surface protection. So it is a trade off and more about appearance I think.

I would put either a semi-solid or solid stain on my five year maintenance project watch list if I were you. If the siding needs some attention at five years it might be less than what you will find at 8-10 and you will not be surprised. You might get buy with touching up some worn sections. If it still looks good and you get 8-10 years you will not be disappointed?

As for oil versus acrylic? I used to think all stain should be solvent based and there may be something to oil semi transparent and semi solid products. Purists would argue that solvent will absorb better into the wood without raising the grain. There are nice waterbased stains in all opacities now though. Darker colors will get hotter and fading will be more noticeable than lighter ones with either oil or waterbased.

For solid stains, I actually think you are better off leaving an acrylic film on the surface. It will be less prone to natural discoloration and chalking typical of oil products. In theory it may be more colorfast and resistant to fading but this will depend on the amount of UV protection the product has too. Waterbased solid stain may be all you can get in many places. Many people do not like working with solvent based products when waterbased equivalents are available.

Again, I would look at SW Acrylic Woodscapes Solid Stain or at Arborcoat, the Ben Moore equivalent. I believe either can be mixed to any color. Both go on old or new wood without a primer (although you should seal any knot holes and so forth). You may need an extra coat on the new wood so everything matches closely.

Last edited by user1007; 05-05-2013 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:20 AM   #9
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


+1 for SW Woodscapes.Just did a job with it a couple weeks ago and it was a really good stain covered and dried in great.Never used a better stain.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:24 PM   #10
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


Thanks to all for the great information.

I'm leaning towards a solid stain-either Zar or SW. Your thoughts on which would be the better product for this CT home with some walls with newly installed smooth surface cedar siding, and other walls with 26 year old very dry cedar siding which is not too smooth any longer.

Is there anyting I should do to prep the siding before apllying a solid stain? Every Fall I wet the sidng with a bleach and cleaner mix and rinse to remove any mildew and soiling. Looks clean and mildew free at this time.

Is an acrylic better at keeping mildew from developing than an oil base?

Good application is important. I will be staining alone and want to use a product that applies nicely and does not set up too quickly in order to avoid lap marks. Any advise here?

Thanks ag
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdaniels View Post
+1 for SW Woodscapes.Just did a job with it a couple weeks ago and it was a really good stain covered and dried in great.Never used a better stain.
Only solid acrylic stain I used that might have been even better was MABs product. Projects I did 10 years ago still look great with but minor touch up to areas exposed to extreme weather. I hope the formula is actually what is Woodscapes now. SW acquired MAB some years ago now.

Some have posted Arborcoat is nice too but it is fairly new. I never tried it before the end.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:33 PM   #12
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jodebg View Post
Thanks to all for the great information.

I'm leaning towards a solid stain-either Zar or SW. Your thoughts on which would be the better product for this CT home with some walls with newly installed smooth surface cedar siding, and other walls with 26 year old very dry cedar siding which is not too smooth any longer.

Is there anyting I should do to prep the siding before apllying a solid stain? Every Fall I wet the sidng with a bleach and cleaner mix and rinse to remove any mildew and soiling. Looks clean and mildew free at this time.

Is an acrylic better at keeping mildew from developing than an oil base?

Good application is important. I will be staining alone and want to use a product that applies nicely and does not set up too quickly in order to avoid lap marks. Any advise here?

Thanks ag
Have not used ZAR solid stain so will not comment. As mentioned I really like Acrylic Woodscapes. It will apply nicely over new or previously finished siding. I think I mentioned you can tint it any color.

Obviously you do not want to apply any exterior product on a hot surface or in direct sunlight. The cleaner the surface the better of course as prep is the not so secret key to any lasting finish.

An acrylic will probably hold color better than an oil and many oils will discolor and chalk some as part of their aging process. In a solid stain I don't think you gain anything using an oil product since most of the product is going to be on the surface vs. a penetraing semi-transparent or semi-solid where an oil based product MAY still have some advantages. Look for a product with good UV protection added and remember that darker colors will show fading more than lighter ones.

You might think about using a thick nap roller cover chased by a wide brush to apply the solid stain since you say your surface is kind of rough.

Last edited by user1007; 05-06-2013 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:06 AM   #13
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jodebg
Thanks to all for the great information.

I'm leaning towards a solid stain-either Zar or SW. Your thoughts on which would be the better product for this CT home with some walls with newly installed smooth surface cedar siding, and other walls with 26 year old very dry cedar siding which is not too smooth any longer.

Is there anyting I should do to prep the siding before apllying a solid stain? Every Fall I wet the sidng with a bleach and cleaner mix and rinse to remove any mildew and soiling. Looks clean and mildew free at this time.

Is an acrylic better at keeping mildew from developing than an oil base?

Good application is important. I will be staining alone and want to use a product that applies nicely and does not set up too quickly in order to avoid lap marks. Any advise here?

Thanks ag
It would be a good idea to sand your new siding, and the old if the stain is gone and raw wood is exposed. Raw wood gets UV damage from the sun quickly, within as little as a few weeks.
Power sanding is best, but even hand Sanding with 100 grit or so will help. The goal is to remove the very top layer of UV damaged wood, exposing a fresh layer for your stain to penetrate/adhere to.
I'm a big ZAR fan because of my experience with solid stains on horizontal surfaces, like decks. In these instances, The oil modifieds like ZAR out perform latex stains big time.
That said, latex solid stains like woodscapes, and cabbot have performed well for me on siding. And the strait latexes are a tad easier to apply than oil modified latexes.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:11 AM   #14
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


Which would you use on the cedar siding, Zar or Woodscapes?
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:17 PM   #15
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Best EXTERIOR STAIN FOR V-GROOVE CEDAR SIDING-SMOOTH SURFACE?


Personally, I would use ZAR. It holds up so much better on horizontals that it would have to be better on siding too.
Two coats on properly prepped surfaces has a 15 year warranty against cracking/peeling on siding. Only 5 yr on decks, but that's still pretty good for a deck.

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