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Old 12-21-2009, 11:15 PM   #1
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


I'm repainting my mom's kitchen and want a low to no-VOC paint. The color she wants is made by BM & Pittsburgh. Which one is preferred?
Or is there a better option for No to low-VOC paint where it's easy to match a color?
Also, I was assuming I could just paint over the old color, a light orange, with two coats of the yellow I'm painting on, and that'd be fine.
Should I paint primer on first? How important is primer if the walls have already been painted and there are no patches or irregularities?

Thanks!
Chris


Last edited by CSB; 12-22-2009 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:20 AM   #2
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


Benjamin Moore is the paint I use whenever I can. Sherwin Williams comes second and not at all far behind. Pittsburgh is an alright third choice IF YOU GET WHAT A PAINT STORE SELLS!!!.

The stuff Menard's sells under the Pittsburgh brand name is absolute crap and as bad or worse than Behr or Valspar sold at other box stores. Why Pittsburgh risks brand respectability by not naming it something else amazes me. At least SW hides their box store crap under the Dutch Boy label.

Except for a few colors, like a decent black, that come factory mixed paint sold by stores comes in mix bases. The colors and names the companies come up with are but suggestions. In theory you can have any color you imagine mixed into any brand of paint.

The Pittsburgh color fan has always been a fave of mine because of the way it is arranged. I cheat all the time and have Pittsburgh colors mixed into Benjamin Moore paint. Most paint stores will have translation tables they share with each other so just bring in the color swatch you want, from whatever company, and you should be good to go. Do not try this at a box store. You will just get a blank stare. If not, they will sneak it in the back room to the scanner and come up with a custom formula for you.

Your issue with painting over existing kitchen paint has to do with what it is? If it is semi-gloss you should de-gloss it first with at least something like TSP and/or a chemical de-glosser or just old-fashioned steel wool or sandpaper. Your new paint job will last a lot longer if you do put a nice, sticky bonding primer on it first, followed by two coats of latex semi or whatever. If it happens to be an oil based finish you should put an alkyd primer, if you can buy it where you are, on it first.

Obviously you want to prep and clean the surfaces in a kitchen first too. A degreaser you can get at an auto parts store along with a car wash sponge amounts to gruesome work but works out great. TSP should do it too. Mineral spirits are worth hitting the cabinets with first if you can stand solvents.

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Old 12-22-2009, 06:51 AM   #3
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


BM Aura is what she wants and is the best paint. Only paint I used which I find is better is C2. But this is not yet sold everywhere.
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Old 12-22-2009, 07:48 AM   #4
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BM Aura is what she wants and is the best paint. Only paint I used which I find is better is C2. But this is not yet sold everywhere.
Sorry. Not convinced. Aura is overly priced and aimed at the unsuspecting consumer market fearing VOC nonsense.

Like anyone has a device to distinguish between the coatings on new mattresses in the kids room, furniture in the rec room, new carpeting, the coating sprayed on the Christmas tree to preserve it or for that matter on bags of lettuce you buy? You open them and notice that puff of air and fumes? Paint a few layers thick is the least of your VOC worries in your home.

Last edited by user1007; 12-22-2009 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 08:13 AM   #5
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


OP was concerned with top quality and Low VOC... this is it. I find the clients loved it and the painting went on easily, covered very well and shown all the qualities in a top rated paint.
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Old 12-22-2009, 10:01 AM   #6
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


kitchen= primer primer primer
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Old 12-22-2009, 10:28 AM   #7
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


"primer, primer, primer"? in a kitchen? in a repaint? Don't know...

I would have thought:"wash, rinse, primer (maybe) - then repaint". I think that no matter how good the primer, nothing will look good over the layers of grease over the stove from x thousands of fried meals...
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:17 AM   #8
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


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I think that no matter how good the primer, nothing will look good over the layers of grease over the stove from x thousands of fried meals...
Only people from the South eat fried foods so that their kitchens ever accumulate any grease or residue. Trust me on this, I have never seen anything like you are suggesting North of the Mason Dixon line.

I hate prepping kitchens so I usually do not anymore. A friend owns a ServiceMaster franchise here. He sends out an army to do paint prep for me when needed and they come with all the chemicals, tools and so forth to do every inch of things. They are all bonded and insured.

I realize I could do whatever they manage to do with a steam cleaner wand as seen on TV.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:52 PM   #9
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I appreciate all the feedback from all of you . . . thanks a lot.
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Old 12-22-2009, 03:13 PM   #10
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


I agree with cleaning first but I feel a good primer is the foundation of a good paint job. just how i roll
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:53 AM   #11
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Oh yeah, so do I...I love BM's 'Fresh Start' primer and go through 5gall pails of it regularly. May be overkill in some areas but I don't use it everywhere - only where 'priming' is called for.

I think my last price was close to $170 a 5gall pail, so has the same cost as a layer of paint. But for repaints of an existing painted surface and unless I'm doing something drastic or there's real damage, I'll grab the paint rather than the primer. Paint performs better than primer here...

But in our line of work, there's usually damage of some kind, so priming new surfaces is almost always a part of our signature. Sometimes, I'll make do with a cheap PVA primer at $14 a gallon but most of the time it's the acrylic primer - again where priming is called for.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:19 PM   #12
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


Being a kitchen, there is a case for priming for the simple re-paint that wouldn't be there for a bedroom
You'll have to make a judgment call, but not seeing it I'd say prime
If the walls are pretty much in as good as shape as a bedroom's would be, you might skip this step, but if that was the case I'd use a "self-priming paint" like most "Kitchen & Bath" paints, or BM's Aura

If it's not cleaned up real well (not possible due to grease etc), then I'd suggest priming/sealing with BIN (shellac-based)
BIN smells like it has enough VOCs to drop a baby seal at 50 paces just by opening the can, but if that grease is in there good, it's the only thing I'd suggest for a nasty kitchen

Most K&Bs however, are not low-VOC, and in fact have extra mildewcides added
Zinsser's Perma-White is one of the best, but we do (affectionately) can it "Perma-Stink"

Though I have used Aura in a professional capacity and can stand by it's "other" (other than ultra-low VOC and high-hiding) properties, I would like to share a personal story about it in a kitchen

In my last kitchen, I wanted a flat, and used Aura for wash-ability (their "flat" is called "matte" to differentiate it as "wash-able")
There also was a door in the kitchen leading to my (working) garage and shop which I wanted to "disappear into the wall", so that had to be flat also
Now, that's crazy...a flat door
But not only did the paint clean up spectacularly (even with the introduction of a puppy and his "dinner table" up against the wall), I didn't have to use a cleaner (just water) to wipe any/all fingerprints and smudges off the the door (or puppy meal messes off the wall)
...until that fated day I was changing the oil in the van, and got a nice blob of motor oil on the door
Oil on flat...I figured I was doomed, and would have to clean it as best I could, oil primer, and re-paint
Much to my surprise (at the time), a few squirts of Simple Green and the door looked as good as the day I painted it

Though I've used Pittsburgh, and it's good, I've not used the low-VOC Pitts
As even the other BM low/no-VOCs won't clean up like Aura, I'd be shocked if the Pitts Low-VOC was even close also
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:15 AM   #13
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


BIN smells like it has enough VOCs to drop a baby seal at 50 paces just by opening the can, but if that grease is in there good, it's the only thing I'd suggest for a nasty kitchen
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:19 PM   #14
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


I have only used the Pittsbrg Manor hall a few times and it is just fine. Excellent coverage and no risks of sagging and running. Sure the BM Regal is better but it is also $10 more a gallon. IMHO BM Aura is overpriced and should really only be used for deep deep colors.
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Old 01-05-2010, 06:55 PM   #15
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Benjamin Moore vs. Pittsburgh Paint?


Benjamin Moore is hands down the BEST! I painted a 5500 sq ft 150 year old home. Everyone told me I was crazy. I called every paint brand technical department and they ALL told me the same thing. Prime with OIL and paint with latex. This paint lasted 15 years on heart pine.

However - in you kitchen... sand with something like a sanding sponge just to dull the finish. I always prime with oil. This way you are covered whether the previous paint was oil or latex. Then top coat with oil. I have found that oil looks good and lasts forever in the kitchen. It is easy to clean too!


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