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Old 04-11-2009, 07:48 AM   #16
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BEHR would like to hear about your experiences with our paint


Chris good effort. Tom Peters once said ``Perception is all there really is``

I have never tried the products. Based on what I have read here continually since joining I have avoided BEHR like the plague... and have bought about 6 gallons of other product in the last 4 months. I live in Canada where we have hundreds of Home Hardware stores selling their own mix of paints..Beautitone. They promote it as being equal or better to Benjamin Moore and they sell it like pros... tried the paint because of their great service.... I live 5 miles from the birthplace of Home Hardware so I try to support their dealers. To me it`s service first


I have a friend who says CHEAP IS TERMINAL.

Chris from a sales perspective I hope the marketing guys position the new product with a satisfaction gaurantee. Just remember, underpromise, overdeliver

Guys don`t shoot the messenger.

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Old 04-11-2009, 08:38 AM   #17
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I'm a contractor and we don't use your paint if we can help it. It is too thick and sticky yet doesn't cover well. It doesn't roll out as good as other paints and leaves many holidays. We have had situations where it has pulled the easy sand right of the ceiling. It also chips with your finger nails too easy.

We almost exclusively use Benjamin Moore or California paints middle range to best as BM's contractor paint, bottom of the line paint, acts like yours does.

For cost and coverage and workability we only use your paint if the Home owner bought it and won't return it.
Labor wise it cost more to use your paint as it doesn't apply as well as others for the reason I have mentioned.
Sorry I couldn't be more positive, but it's my honest assessment from years of experience with better products.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:53 AM   #18
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I have to mention that if Homeowners were to be sampled for their opinions about their experience with products they would reply in the same way a new born baby does to a shiny rattling object. Either filed with giddy exuberance or total anxiety and crying. Either way it wouldn't be a good sample of a products worth.

The experienced painter/contractor works for money that has to be defended by a reliable stable cost effective product that creates and sustains a value over a long period of time if he expects any repeat customers. Bells and whistle aside the product has to work on many levels.

Through trial and error we discover what the best products are, as advertisements are for influencing the unknowledgeable shoppers, not the serious contractor. What Behr advertises it falls short on in its products in ever experimental usage we have tried. To think a professional doesn't give products a chance is naive. We just haven't got the time for products that don't measure up to the needs of a strong clientelle and a cheap product will destroy a reputation.

Though if I had the advertising clout of Home depot and Behr paint I could sell anything to anybody and wouldn't care about quality.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.behr View Post
Hi Everyone,

My name is Chris and I work with Behr Process Corp. I'm sorry to hear about the problems some of you have had with Behr paint.

We're in the process of rolling out new product formulas and would appreciate hearing from you directly to better unnderstand your experiences with the brand. Please PM me or email me directly at:
clarsen@behr.com.

If you would like to keep your responses in the forum that's okay too, but I'm hoping to hear more specific expereinces (positive, negative, or neutral).

Thanks in advance guys.

Dear Behr Representative,

I used Behr Deck plus two summers ago. I did three coats to have a thick deep coat. After one year, the solid latex stain peeled up in places. I thought I did something wrong in prep. I used Behr No.64 multi-surface deck prep cleaner and mildew stain remover; since the deck was a year old and in great condition (which is recommended on the label). Before I stained the deck the first time, the deck was never sealed or treated. So, in one year my deck was in worse shape then it was when I started. It peeled and faded. So last summer I started over, this time I did everything the label said to a tee. I used Behr No.64 - 15 minute Quick-Fix Deck Finish remover and wood resurfacer. I power washed the deck. I then sanded deck with box sander to make sure surface was free of everything. Then I cleaned the deck one more time to get rid of dust and just to make sure it was totally clean. Then I let it dry for about four days.
I again used Behr Deck plus solid latex 213 deep base. I used two coats, but decided a thin third coat was needed. I know on the label, it says 200-400 sq. ft. per gallon. I used three gallons for the first coat alone. It was because the wood soaked it up so much, one gallon barely covered the wood, and I wanted to have a good first coat. Plus, doing all the railing and spindles ate up a lot of paint. I did each coat 24 hours a part (three days). The days were Ideal; the conditions were 75F with partial sun, and no moisture. It had to stick this time. But no it didn't. The same thing happened. I now know it wasn't me, it is the product. It peeled and faded as bad as the first time. I have one partially used can left out of the 6 gallons I bought last year. That is on top of the 6 gallons I used before. The sander cost me $35 for a day, plus $15 for sand rounds. This is the worst experience I have had with any product ever! I spent days preparing, days painting (with a Purdy brush by the way), So over the past two years, I have bought 12 gallons of paint, spent at least 10 full days in all, and spent money on supplies, which were all Behr products that were recommended. It has a 5 year warranty. It hasn't made it a full year. Your product is horrible. I feel dumb trying to use it the second time giving Behr the benefit of the doubt. As I read on the internet and forums- It is easy to see it is a reoccurring problem. Everyone complains about it peeling and fading. I have a 20x20 deck. It is a big part of my home and it is embarrassing to have people see the deck “like” it was never cared for. I don't want your product, I never will buy your product again, and most of all I will warn as many people as possible, that Behr Deck plus is the worst purchase any one can make. It looks like a lot of people feel the same way as me. I just got a quote to re-do my deck at $1,000.00. That is nothing considering how much time and money I wasted using your product. I am asking for a full refund of 12 gallons of Behr Deck plus solid stain, Behr cleaners and products, and my valuable time. I am going to as for $300.00 re-fund. If I believed in you product I would have you re-do the deck, but I will be using a different company product this year. Like I said, I only have one can left. I purchased it all at home depot. I figure each gallon costing $25.00 x 12 gallons=$300.00 / Cleaners and sander rental costing $150.00 / Labor and time costing $150.00 (12 days of prep and painting/clean up) this all includes both years.
It is sad that your product is nothing you say it is. I would call this fraud. Anyways, I contacted my lawyer about the matter, so he is aware of the faulty product and my asking for re imbursement. I would prefer not to use legal action. I figure you made money on my purchase; I lost money on my purchase, so I feel $300.00 is fare. I even used all Behr products to do the job. Let me know what you are going to do for me. Again, the only positive thing you can do now is to show me you still stand by you product by standing by your warranty and giving me a refund.
I look forward to hearing from a representative of Behr paints.

Michael Gummerson
gummersons0701@hotmailcom
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Old 04-11-2009, 10:14 AM   #20
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Can you imagine what this would have done to a Contractors reputation and how many customers would label him a bad contractor due to this kind of results from this kind of product??

Be thankful your lively hood wasn't dependent on this.
Imagine a contractor trying to overcome the media campaign of brainwashing by these products to try to defend his honor after being duped into this result.

Most people will side with the advertiser, who has used money to invent a reputation instead of building one with experience and knowledge. Something the poor contractor can't afford to do and has to work extra hard to overcome such a products results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgumm View Post
Dear Behr Representative,

I used Behr Deck plus two summers ago. I did three coats to have a thick deep coat. After one year, the solid latex stain peeled up in places. I thought I did something wrong in prep. I used Behr No.64 multi-surface deck prep cleaner and mildew stain remover; since the deck was a year old and in great condition (which is recommended on the label). Before I stained the deck the first time, the deck was never sealed or treated. So, in one year my deck was in worse shape then it was when I started. It peeled and faded. So last summer I started over, this time I did everything the label said to a tee. I used Behr No.64 - 15 minute Quick-Fix Deck Finish remover and wood resurfacer. I power washed the deck. I then sanded deck with box sander to make sure surface was free of everything. Then I cleaned the deck one more time to get rid of dust and just to make sure it was totally clean. Then I let it dry for about four days.
I again used Behr Deck plus solid latex 213 deep base. I used two coats, but decided a thin third coat was needed. I know on the label, it says 200-400 sq. ft. per gallon. I used three gallons for the first coat alone. It was because the wood soaked it up so much, one gallon barely covered the wood, and I wanted to have a good first coat. Plus, doing all the railing and spindles ate up a lot of paint. I did each coat 24 hours a part (three days). The days were Ideal; the conditions were 75F with partial sun, and no moisture. It had to stick this time. But no it didn't. The same thing happened. I now know it wasn't me, it is the product. It peeled and faded as bad as the first time. I have one partially used can left out of the 6 gallons I bought last year. That is on top of the 6 gallons I used before. The sander cost me $35 for a day, plus $15 for sand rounds. This is the worst experience I have had with any product ever! I spent days preparing, days painting (with a Purdy brush by the way), So over the past two years, I have bought 12 gallons of paint, spent at least 10 full days in all, and spent money on supplies, which were all Behr products that were recommended. It has a 5 year warranty. It hasn't made it a full year. Your product is horrible. I feel dumb trying to use it the second time giving Behr the benefit of the doubt. As I read on the internet and forums- It is easy to see it is a reoccurring problem. Everyone complains about it peeling and fading. I have a 20x20 deck. It is a big part of my home and it is embarrassing to have people see the deck “like” it was never cared for. I don't want your product, I never will buy your product again, and most of all I will warn as many people as possible, that Behr Deck plus is the worst purchase any one can make. It looks like a lot of people feel the same way as me. I just got a quote to re-do my deck at $1,000.00. That is nothing considering how much time and money I wasted using your product. I am asking for a full refund of 12 gallons of Behr Deck plus solid stain, Behr cleaners and products, and my valuable time. I am going to as for $300.00 re-fund. If I believed in you product I would have you re-do the deck, but I will be using a different company product this year. Like I said, I only have one can left. I purchased it all at home depot. I figure each gallon costing $25.00 x 12 gallons=$300.00 / Cleaners and sander rental costing $150.00 / Labor and time costing $150.00 (12 days of prep and painting/clean up) this all includes both years.
It is sad that your product is nothing you say it is. I would call this fraud. Anyways, I contacted my lawyer about the matter, so he is aware of the faulty product and my asking for re imbursement. I would prefer not to use legal action. I figure you made money on my purchase; I lost money on my purchase, so I feel $300.00 is fare. I even used all Behr products to do the job. Let me know what you are going to do for me. Again, the only positive thing you can do now is to show me you still stand by you product by standing by your warranty and giving me a refund.
I look forward to hearing from a representative of Behr paints.

Michael Gummerson
gummersons0701@hotmailcom
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Old 04-11-2009, 10:25 AM   #21
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Behr PR Representative, thank you for your courage in adressing public issues with your product.

Because the internet, product opinions can be seen instantly by others across the country.
I'd guess the multitude of negative individual opinions have(and will) affect your market share and profit over time, despite an agressive advertizing campaign.

Please consider not only the money lost with a deficient product, but the additional time, electricity, gas, etc. spent by every single painter in removing the bad product, preping, sourcing and re-applying another product.
Additionally, premature failure of a product can also lead to water damage of the underlying surface and/or structure.

My question would be: Does the Behr warrantee compensate for this as well?
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillwerkin View Post
Behr PR Representative, thank you for your courage in adressing public issues with your product.

Because the internet, product opinions can be seen instantly by others across the country.
I'd guess the multitude of negative individual opinions have(and will) affect your market share and profit over time, despite an agressive advertizing campaign.

Please consider not only the money lost with a deficient product, but the additional time, electricity, gas, etc. spent by every single painter in removing the bad product, preping, sourcing and re-applying another product.
Additionally, premature failure of a product can also lead to water damage of the underlying surface and/or structure.

My question would be: Does the Behr warrantee compensate for this as well?
That is a good point. There are many more expenses put into it than just buying the paint. My wood was not protected well, so the wood isn't in the shape it should be. The rental of a sander, sand paper, time prepping, time saining, time stripping of the old bad stain, etc. I also commend some one from Behr realizing the problem and trying to address it. Like what was said, over time the quality of the product (or lack of quality) will make that company loose it all.
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:07 PM   #23
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Too bad most people dont get a second chance to run their own company if they screw up as badly as Behr. Sales force, if you can call them that, at Home Depot spewing lies to home owners. Your product is crap, rename it, tell the truth about it and stop ripping people off.
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Old 04-12-2009, 09:39 AM   #24
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..."Your product is crap, rename it, tell the truth about it and stop ripping people off..."

Is a 99-cent bottle of shampoo sold at WalMart a bad product? How 'bout if they told you they sell a million bottles a day - is it a bad product?

No it's a cheap product made from fewer ingredients of lesser quality, all designed to meet a fixed price point.

My wife's hairdresser doesn't use it - although it does clean hair...so why wouldn't she?

Turning that around, I wouldn't think a hairdresser was worth the $100 she charges if she used a 99-cent Walmart shampoo. And she doesn't because much like the pro painters we're talking about, she's tried them all and found that the $10-a-bottle, 25% active shampoo that has been formulated with all the latest silk proteins, the tea tree oils, the thickening agents and moisiturizing amphoteric surfactants works best for her applications.

But that doesn't make a 99-cent shampoo a bad product. Now if WalMart said to consumers that their product acts like the salon grades, I'd fault WalMart, not the shampoo.

The 99-cent bottle fills a niche being the one-timer, price-conscious consumer that is there to buy something else; the salon brand fulfills another niche...

In my time, I have made both 99-cent and the $10-a-bottle products in our plant; there is a close parallel between the production of those - and paints: it's all in the formulation and you really get what you pay for. The margin on one and the other are almost the same... %-wise.

I'm not a pro painter - but I don't use Behr as a matter of choice. On the other hand, I have seen paint formulations that are designed for inexpensive paints and those of premium paints - and where I paint, the premium is always a better deal.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
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But that doesn't make a 99-cent shampoo a bad product. Now if WalMart said to consumers that their product acts like the salon grades, I'd fault WalMart, not the shampoo.
Isn't that what Behr, Home Depot, Consumer Reports and some people do?
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
..."Your product is crap, rename it, tell the truth about it and stop ripping people off..."

Is a 99-cent bottle of shampoo sold at WalMart a bad product? How 'bout if they told you they sell a million bottles a day - is it a bad product?

No it's a cheap product made from fewer ingredients of lesser quality, all designed to meet a fixed price point.

My wife's hairdresser doesn't use it - although it does clean hair...so why wouldn't she?

Turning that around, I wouldn't think a hairdresser was worth the $100 she charges if she used a 99-cent Walmart shampoo. And she doesn't because much like the pro painters we're talking about, she's tried them all and found that the $10-a-bottle, 25% active shampoo that has been formulated with all the latest silk proteins, the tea tree oils, the thickening agents and moisiturizing amphoteric surfactants works best for her applications.

But that doesn't make a 99-cent shampoo a bad product. Now if WalMart said to consumers that their product acts like the salon grades, I'd fault WalMart, not the shampoo.

The 99-cent bottle fills a niche being the one-timer, price-conscious consumer that is there to buy something else; the salon brand fulfills another niche...

In my time, I have made both 99-cent and the $10-a-bottle products in our plant; there is a close parallel between the production of those - and paints: it's all in the formulation and you really get what you pay for. The margin on one and the other are almost the same... %-wise.

I'm not a pro painter - but I don't use Behr as a matter of choice. On the other hand, I have seen paint formulations that are designed for inexpensive paints and those of premium paints - and where I paint, the premium is always a better deal.
If you read my other post you would see I said what you did. Behr is what it is, I get that, but make sure the sales force (HD employees) are not on the front lines saying that it is just as good as top end paint products. All you end up doing is putting false expectations on the customer and making contractors look bad.
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:26 PM   #27
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No, no don't get me wrong -we agree. In fact your post was right on the money. I personally don't fault Behr paints as much as I do the marketing of it as a 'premium' product. And by that, I mean they may charge you $28 for a gallon of paint when it is 'worth' only $15 - but they do that to hide it's real value. In other words it's badly positioned for us not them.

If the employees see the paint worth $28, they might assume it is of a higher quality than it is. Not the employees fault...

It is what it is.
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:04 AM   #28
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I attempted to use the texture paint on my ceiling that Behr makes.

It was a pain the a......to use and I have never used so many words in my life when I attempted to put it on. I purchased the correct brush, but the product was impossible to put on. Really thick.

Based on this experience and all the other comments I would never try any other product that Behr has.

It is a cheap product, and you get what you pay for. I have just finished using BM and I simply LOVE it. Goes on really nice, and coverage is excellent.
I have never painted before, and my paint job, has turned out excellent.
Looks just as good as the paint job that my contractor charged me $5,000 to do, for my home.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:04 AM   #29
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I am a HD employee in the paint dept. I am located in canada and have been doing this for several years and have heard more than my share of comments about several brands of paint.
First off I would like to comment on all the professional painters out there. I can't say anything to painters in other areas of North America but where I come from any joe can got to the dollar store buy a brush and roller, put an add in the paper and advertise himself as a pro painter. Many customer i come in contact with come in looking for a second opinion. If they followed their "painters" advice every homeowner would be applying BIN on everything they are painting. So called pro advice.
As for behr paint I have heard the same complaints about the products as i read here. But you are but a drop in the pond. I receive that many compliments on Behr times 100 from homeowners and reputable painters. I have also heard complaints about BM and many other brands. Price wasn't one of them.
As for the comments saying HD employees knowing nothing, This is my job, I take pride in it and and i have no problems sending customers to a "paint store" if I cannot help them or if do not have a paricular product they require. The so-called paint stores in my area do the same.
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:44 AM   #30
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Ya sure pal. People are just flooding forums with complaints about Benjamin Moore paint sagging, too thick, white not covering white, peeling and that it stinks.

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