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PaintPro 04-07-2008 01:08 PM

BEHR Paint Problem Please advise
 
I have been painting for over 25 years and resently used BEHR paint to paint a house. I am having two problems with the paint and have been testing over the last two weeks to fix it.

I have used BEHR before with no issues.

APPLICATION:
First I primed with tinted primer. (SPRAY) The finish was streaked with shiny and flat stripes up and down the walls and ceilings at every 8 to 12 inches and with a blotchy effect, simular to a lepord pattern also with the shiny flat effect. The blotchy pattern looks lighter and flatter in the centers and shinnier and darker at the edges. I was not concerned at that point because it was primer.

The house was left overnight to dry. One coat of BEHR Flat Pastel base Paint was applied by two spray guys and two different rigs and on different floors. The initial wet finish looked like glass. The final finish looked exactly like the primed finish.

TESTING:

First we resprayed and back rolled the ceilings on the second floor. The finished effect was the same. Another coat of paint was applied and still it looks the same.

Second we sprayed Sherwin Williams flattest paint on the first floor ceiling. The finished effect was the same.

Thrid we prep coated the first floor ceiling. You could still see the blotchy effect and stripes through the prep coat.

Forth we re-painted the first floor ceiling and short of filling in the texture effect, no change.

Fifth we kilzed the second floor ceiling with kilz latex, (not oil based, as it would increase the blotchy effect), and you could see the blotchy effect and the stripes through it as well.

Sixth we painted it with Sherwin Williams Pro Mar 400 and the effect still came through.

Seventh we applied one more coat of BEHR and still it came through.

TO CLAIRIFY:

There are 5 to 7 different coats of different materials on two floors of this house now on very long ceilings. We tried different tips, rigs, spray guys, and various primers; all to no avail.

There are shiny to flat to shiny to flat and so on stripes on the walls and spraying the other direction does not cure it.

When looking directly at the walls you can see that they are blotchy through out the ENTIRE house.

Two experienced painters with over 15 years on one and over 25 years on my end both come up with the same issues no matter what we have tried.

The drywall is a Mexican style with mostly a flat surface with occasional dips and is level.

Looking one way down the wall the lines disappear, for instance: There is a slider at one end of the room where natural light comes in, when you stand with your back to the slider the lines disappear, and when you face the slider they reappear. This is the same for the entire house, when you face the light the are there when you turn away and look with the light they dissapear, but are not shadows.

I got a big problem and am willing to try just about anything to fix it, even retexturing the whole house.

SOLUTION:

Desperately seeking one as the time and money now in this house is a fortune. If you have ever experienced this with any paint especially BEHR paint please let me know.

I HAVE PICTURES AND VIDEO!

slickshift 04-07-2008 08:27 PM

As poor a product as Behr is, and the latex Kilz being one of the few products that might actually give Behr an actual tough competitor in the "Suckiest Coatings Ever" Race, I think you've got a clear case of the "it's not the paint" syndrome
Sounds like some serious contamination all over that sheetrock
Could have been at/from the lumberyard or from the crew
Do you know where it came from and/or what they used to attach it?
Well...doesn't matter too much...it's there regardless
Could have been a greasy sheetrock lifter

If the coatings seems to be not falling off, then coat with an oil-based primer/sealer (Zinsser, BM, or SWP) and topcoat

You might want to test an area first though
Then you'll know if you have to step up to with Zinsser's BIN
But you really don't want to BIN the whole place unless you have to

PaintPro 04-07-2008 09:02 PM

Magnum Drywall Mud
 
Magnum drywall mud and it is on there heavy, very heavy due to the fact that it is a hand texture. In my opinion it is too even to be the drywall mud. In my opinion it is coming from our fan because it happens no matter which way we spray it.

slickshift 04-07-2008 09:25 PM

Ah..."Mexican Style Drywall" is a textured mud
I get it now
I would tend to agree with you then, and think it's something else

If it's happening with numerous paints and with different sprayers, is there anything else that remains the same in the process?
Did you use that one fan on each of these ceilings?
Could it be blowing WD-40 or 3 in 1 on the ceilings?

mark942 04-08-2008 08:10 AM

Back roll? Sounds like the texture hasn't been saturated/pentration.

PaintPro 04-09-2008 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift (Post 114577)
Ah..."Mexican Style Drywall" is a textured mud
I get it now
I would tend to agree with you then, and think it's something else

If it's happening with numerous paints and with different sprayers, is there anything else that remains the same in the process?
Did you use that one fan on each of these ceilings?
Could it be blowing WD-40 or 3 in 1 on the ceilings?

We used the primer the BEHR tells us to use, Behr K-10 White base and we tinted it the wall color. Shewin Williams Camel Back, a darker color.

Yes, the pattern is associated with our spray pattern. However, when we finished spraying it was so even that you can see a reflection, just like a mirror, it looks like a sheet of glass when wet. I have video of myself and my spray guy spraying because BEHR told me it was something we were doing wrong.

It is not my gun or nozzle or spray rig. During my testing we used two different rigs made by two different manufactures, at different preasures, and so on. All to the same result.

The primer was applied in the same manner as the paint, to achieve an even wet coat, and it too looked perfect when wet.

One day was given between each coat on the test ceilings. The third floor sat over 7 days with just one coat of primer and one coat of flat paint and I repainted it myself. I sprayed it length ways and now the lines are long ways down the room with a cross hatch sort of pattern coming through underneath.

The bathrooms are eggshell paint and have one coat of primer and one coat of eggshell. There were three days of dry time between the primer and the eggshell and the splotchy effect is worst in these areas. These walls were completely dry.

QUESTION FOR EVERYONE:

I am using BEHR paint because the coporation that owns my company also owns BEHR and opened this shop to use BEHR. I have never had this experience with any other type of paint.

The pastel base that I am using to tint this particular color has a lot of C colorant in it. Have you ever experienced issues with a finish because of colorant. Colorant particualry takes a very long time to dry, we have our own tint machine and the colorant takes days to dry out in a scooped out container, where paint is mere minutes to a couple of hours in comparison.

I noticed that when the paint was in our spray bin that the colorant was sort of separating from the paint, could it have done the same thing on the walls? We box all of our paint together prior to spraying it on the walls to avoid touch-up problems. It was thouroughly shaken a day before we sprayed and boxed immediately prior to application.

With all of the different things we have tried, I know that it is not how or what we used to put the paint on with. Our methods are proven and the initial wet surface perfect. The issue must have something to to with the product or the dry wall.

I am letting this house sit while they get their cabinets and wood beams in. It has been over a week since we applied our last coat to the first and second floor ceilings. Most of the walls and ceilings have sat since the day we finish coated them.

PaintPro 04-09-2008 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark942 (Post 114639)
Back roll? Sounds like the texture hasn't been saturated/pentration.

We back rolled the second story ceilings 3 days after the initial finish coat. On smooth drywall like this it adds a textured effect. I thought that this would help, but it did not and the contractor stopped us because of the added texture the roller nap leaves.

To clairify:

Back rolling did not fix the problem, the end result is shiny flat corresponding now to the roller and still blotchy. Also now my contractor is now standing on ladders looking for more problems. I even sanded the walls prior to adding more paint to reducce the shiny/flat effect, and that too did not work.

sprayer48 04-09-2008 11:13 PM

:no: hey pal,

never heard of this, but you may want to cut your losses. change your name and move the business.
just joking...... sorry no advice
:jester:

mark942 04-10-2008 08:32 AM

Paintpro,,,,,,,,,,,You might want to try a post in this forum http://www.contractortalk.com/ to see if any other contractors have had the same problem.Good Luck

freedan2010 10-14-2010 09:56 PM

The more I hear of all your attempts to correct things I have to think there's a substrate problem. Something may very well have gotten on the drywall during manufacture. That's the only way to have such a consistent, persistent problem. Is there a way to check other sites which used the same batch of drywall? If so, its worth checking the results.

Matthewt1970 10-14-2010 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freedan2010 (Post 517033)
The more I hear of all your attempts to correct things I have to think there's a substrate problem. Something may very well have gotten on the drywall during manufacture. That's the only way to have such a consistent, persistent problem. Is there a way to check other sites which used the same batch of drywall? If so, its worth checking the results.

That's what I was thinking. Could be the drywall is actually sagging as well. Also, any shance the spots are where the drywall mud was?

krustyluv 05-10-2012 09:00 PM

chinese contaminated drywall, bro
 
I have been remodeling 20 years
altho I have not had your specific problem, there have been tons of reports of houses needing all the brand-new drywall ripped out and replaced because the high levels of formaldehyde and other crap in the gypsum and paper mix causing illnesses
try to find out where the drywall came from-there must be heavy, evaporating contaminants seeping thru the paint that even primer cannot contain
how nice that a Communist country with nuclear missiles aimed at us also is our number one trading partner! Even Hilti, a famous German power tool maker, now manufactures its formerly awesome tools in China. Clinton, Bush, Obama--have sold our country out from under us. End of rant.:mad:

7echo 05-10-2012 10:41 PM

ummmm, what just happened here?

chrisn 05-11-2012 04:21 AM

Blast from the past:laughing:

Faron79 05-13-2012 12:15 AM

Yeah....another 4 y/o thread being dredged-up!!

Faron:whistling2:


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