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Old 06-29-2008, 11:44 PM   #1
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Bathroom paint/primer


I'm in the middle of a total bathroom remodel. I'm going to go to Sherwin Williams and get their best interior latex wall paint for the bathroom.

I'm good at painting, but admittedly don't know much about paint.

My question has to do with primer. I bought name brand PVA primer to paint on the bare sheetrock. I honestly don't know what "PVA" primer is specifically...Assuming it is an all-purpose primer??? I've had one guy tell me to take it back, but I'm curious why it is a bad choice, if it is.

If there's a better option than PVA white primer, what would it be? I'm painting over new rock in dry areas, and want to use primer to prevent my expensive wall paint from sucking in and needing additional coats.

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Old 06-30-2008, 06:47 AM   #2
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Bathroom paint/primer


Yes, take it back
It's a "cheap builder's primer"
Nothing wrong with it per say (though I don't care for it and don't recommend it), for your application (which is an environment extremely tough on paints) I'd strongly recommend some SW Prep Rite, or whichever the SW store recommends

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Old 06-30-2008, 08:30 AM   #3
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Bathroom paint/primer


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_acetate
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:05 PM   #4
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Thank you both very much!
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:14 PM   #5
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Bathroom paint/primer


Agree to get the best primer you can find. Also do a thick coat -- painters often do a thin one, but I like a full coat because it prepares the wall better and saves on the paint, although I always do 2 coats.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:39 PM   #6
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Bathroom paint/primer


painters often do a thin one,

Being one(painter),I do not apply a thin coat,just a normal one like all others.

Agree to get the best primer you can find. Also do a thick coat -- painters often do a thin one, but I like a full coat because it prepares the wall better and saves on the paint, although I always do 2 coats.
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:30 PM   #7
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Bathroom paint/primer


KCTermite:

A paint meant for bathrooms, like Zinsser's PermaWhite Bathroom Paint would be a better choice than Sherwin Williams top-of-the-line paint. The reason why is that the bathroom paint will have mildewcides added to it that slowly leach out of the paint film whenever it's wet to kill any mildew that might start growing on the paint.

I've never heard of a "PVA" brand name. PVA primer simply means a primer made using resins made from polyvinyl acetate. Polyvinyl acetate is the same plastic that white wood glue is made out of. You can buy a more expensive acrylic primer, (made out of a plastic called polymethyl methacrylate, PMMA, also known as plexiglas) but all you need under paint in a bathroom is a primer made out of polyvinyl acetate. MOST of the latex paints and primers made in North America are made with either PVA or PMMA resins. Using an acrylic primer (made out of PMMA, or plexiglas) would just be wasting money in my view. You need a PMMA primer if you are painting over fresh concrete or wood of questionable dryness.

Polyvinyl acetate is:
a) not as UV resistant as plexiglas primers
b) doesn't stick to moist or damp surfaces as well either
c) retains some stickiness, even after it's dry (called "blocking")
d) in general, dries to a softer film than plexiglass primers

However, none of these attributes are a disadvantage in a primer cuz the drywall is indoors, so UV isn't a concern. It's dry drywall, so sticking to damp surfaces isn't a concern. And, you'll be topcoating over it, so blocking isn't a concern.

I agree you should use a good quality PVA primer, but I've never used "PVA" brand primer so I don't know what the others in here don't like about it. There are many different kinds of PVA resins used in primers and paints, and they all have different properties. Further, the characteristics of the primer will change depending on the kinds and amounts of additives added to the primer at the factory. Basically, you get what you pay for.

However, you'll pay more for a PMMA primer, which you don't need. Maybe just go to any paint store and ask for their best "general purpose" PVA primer.
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:16 AM   #8
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Bathroom paint/primer


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestor_Kelebay View Post
KCTermite:

A paint meant for bathrooms, like Zinsser's PermaWhite Bathroom Paint would be a better choice than Sherwin Williams top-of-the-line paint. The reason why is that the bathroom paint will have mildewcides added to it that slowly leach out of the paint film whenever it's wet to kill any mildew that might start growing on the paint.

I've never heard of a "PVA" brand name. PVA primer simply means a primer made using resins made from polyvinyl acetate. Polyvinyl acetate is the same plastic that white wood glue is made out of. You can buy a more expensive acrylic primer, (made out of a plastic called polymethyl methacrylate, PMMA, also known as plexiglas) but all you need under paint in a bathroom is a primer made out of polyvinyl acetate. MOST of the latex paints and primers made in North America are made with either PVA or PMMA resins. Using an acrylic primer (made out of PMMA, or plexiglas) would just be wasting money in my view. You need a PMMA primer if you are painting over fresh concrete or wood of questionable dryness.

Polyvinyl acetate is:
a) not as UV resistant as plexiglas primers
b) doesn't stick to moist or damp surfaces as well either
c) retains some stickiness, even after it's dry (called "blocking")
d) in general, dries to a softer film than plexiglass primers

However, none of these attributes are a disadvantage in a primer cuz the drywall is indoors, so UV isn't a concern. It's dry drywall, so sticking to damp surfaces isn't a concern. And, you'll be topcoating over it, so blocking isn't a concern.

I agree you should use a good quality PVA primer, but I've never used "PVA" brand primer so I don't know what the others in here don't like about it. There are many different kinds of PVA resins used in primers and paints, and they all have different properties. Further, the characteristics of the primer will change depending on the kinds and amounts of additives added to the primer at the factory. Basically, you get what you pay for.

However, you'll pay more for a PMMA primer, which you don't need. Maybe just go to any paint store and ask for their best "general purpose" PVA primer.
Thanks Nestor. Great explanation there. I went to Sherwin Williams and they basically tried to sell me a stainblocking/sealing primer (like Kilz) at a cost of well over $30/gallon. So I bought their best finish coat paint and am using Behr PVA primer. Some might not consider Behr a name brand but I guess I do. I'm not overly concerned about mildew resistance, as the paint won't be subject to moisture, and with the high CFM bath fan I put in, humidity will not be an issue. The morons at Home Depot didn't know the difference between PVA and Kilz-type primers, so they were no help. I talked to a good friend who was a painting company owner for years and he advised that he doesn't splurge on primer. He suggested a good coat of plain old PVA primer and said I was wasting money on anything else.

Goes to show you that opinions vary! Thanks to everyone for all the info and advice. It helps me make an informed decision at least!

Last edited by Termite; 07-01-2008 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:37 AM   #9
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Bathroom paint/primer


I don't think the other people in here were suggesting you splurge and waste your money buying an acrylic primer. I think they just wanted you to buy a good quality PVA primer. I believe they felt that the "PVA" brand of PVA primer wasn't a good quality PVA primer.

Quote:
The morons at Home Depot didn't know the difference between PVA and Kilz-type primers, so they were no help.
MasterChem's KILZ sealer is an ordinary alkyd primer in that it uses ordinary alkyd resins. The reason why it dries faster than ordinary alkyd primers is that instead of using just mineral spirits as it's carrier fluid, it uses a mixture of 60 percent naptha and 40 percent mineral spirits.

Naptha is used as camping fuel because it's evaporation rate is high enough to sustain a good flame. It evaporates about 5 times faster than mineral spirits.

So, the difference between KILZ sealer and other alkyd primers is not what stays behind on the wall, but what evaporates from it into the air.

Whenever anything "bleeds through" a paint or primer, what's actually happening is that it's dissolving in the carrier fluid (mineral spirits of an alkyd primer or water of a latex primer), and diffusing through the wet film to discolour it's surface. KILZ advertises itself as a stain sealer. The way it seals stains is by reducing the amount of time available for that diffusion to take place. The naptha evaporates rapidly out of the wet film, with the result that the KILZ becomes rapidly too thick for rapid diffusion to take place in the remaining carrier fluid in the film. Anything dissolved in the mineral spirits or naptha in the KILZ then becomes encapsulated before it has time to diffuse through the entire thickness of the wet film to discolour the surface.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 07-01-2008 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:37 AM   #10
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Bathroom paint/primer


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestor_Kelebay View Post
KCTermite:

A paint meant for bathrooms, like Zinsser's PermaWhite Bathroom Paint would be a better choice than Sherwin Williams top-of-the-line paint. The reason why is that the bathroom paint will have mildewcides added to it that slowly leach out of the paint film whenever it's wet to kill any mildew that might start growing on the paint.
Nestor,

FYI, Sherwin (and I think BM also) make specific bathroom paints apart from their regular residential paint product lines.

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Old 07-01-2008, 11:51 AM   #11
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Bathroom paint/primer


Then, if I were TheKCTermite, I would buy one of those paints meant for bathrooms rather than one meant just for indoor residential use.

The ones meant for bathrooms will have mildewcides in them that leach out of the paint film if and when it gets wet to kill any mildew spores that land on the paint. That keeps the paint free of mildew growth.

Kitchen & Bath paints also have mildewcides in them, but not as much as bathroom paints. Paints meant for normal indoor residential use will have even less mildewcides in them.

If people used the paints that were meant to be used in their application, there would be a lot fewer people complaining about the paint they bought. Some people will buy a latex paint and paint a floor or kitchen cupboard shelves with it, and then complain that the paint is no good because it gets dirty fast. The usual result is that they won't buy that brand of paint again because they tried it once (on their kitchen shelves) and in their opinion, it wasn't any good. I'm not a fan of Behr paints, but sometimes I think that the reason Behr sometimes gets maligned in these forums is because the typical Home Depot customer simply doesn't know enough about paint to make a good choice as to what kind of paint to use in their application, so they buy the wrong type of Behr paint for the application and then criticize Behr for making garbage paint.

If Bennie Moore or Sherwin Williams make a paint formulated especially for Bathrooms, I think it's a no brainer to acknowledge that they chose the resins and additives most appropriate for that kind of paint, and accept that Mr. Moore and Mr. Williams know more about their paints than we do, and to take their word for it that their bathroom paints are a better choice for bathrooms than their regular wall paints. Or, at least, that's how my brain thinks.

Not saying "don't use BM or SW paints". I'm saying that there'll be fewer problems using a BM or SW paint meant to be used in bathrooms than a BM or SW paint that isn't meant to be used in bathrooms. If TheKCtermite figures he won't have any problems anyhow, then he's an adult, and it's a free country, and it's his money and his bathroom, so it's his call. There have been worse tragedys in the history of Mankind.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 07-01-2008 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 07-02-2008, 03:28 AM   #12
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Bathroom paint/primer


I don't understand why you just didn't go to menards or lowes or home depot and get some zineers bullseye `123 primer(thats a stainkiller primer sealer) and then the zineers permawhite paint(mold and mildew resistant). Thats what i used on my bathroom looks great. Also those cost me like 12 dollars a gallon. They were on sale at the time got lucky. Or Ben moore kitchen and bath paint which can be tinted deeper in color that permawhite. Your limited on tint when going with zinseers permawhite.


Last edited by 747; 07-02-2008 at 03:30 AM.
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