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Old 04-25-2013, 08:54 PM   #1
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Base tints and the makeup of paint


Ran into a situation today that doesn't make sense to me so looking for someone to explain it to me.....in words of less than 3 syllables

I bought a can of pain in a medium brown and when it dried against the wall it looked like baby poop so I took it back to have them darken it and although they tried 3 times by adding black and even dark green in large amounts it never really changed shades all that much.

The guy stated that he thought it was because the base was for the medium brown and when getting a darker brown they use a different base. He opened the two different types of base and to be honest I did not see that much of a difference.

Can someone enlighten me and yes I really wanna know lol.

Robyn

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Old 04-25-2013, 11:09 PM   #2
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Base tints and the makeup of paint


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Originally Posted by forcedreno2012 View Post
Ran into a situation today that doesn't make sense to me so looking for someone to explain it to me.....in words of less than 3 syllables

I bought a can of pain in a medium brown and when it dried against the wall it looked like baby poop so I took it back to have them darken it and although they tried 3 times by adding black and even dark green in large amounts it never really changed shades all that much.

The guy stated that he thought it was because the base was for the medium brown and when getting a darker brown they use a different base. He opened the two different types of base and to be honest I did not see that much of a difference.

Can someone enlighten me and yes I really wanna know lol.



Robyn
Hiya Robyn,

Most companies make a series of bases that may include a Neutral (for extremely deep or bright colors), an Accent (for less deep or brilliant), a Deep Tone (again, less than neutral or accent), a Mid-Tone (for colors slightly deeper or brighter than pastels), a White Base (for pastels), and a Hi-Hiding White Base (for pastels or "tints" that call for just the slightest amount of tint colorant). Each company names their own bases, so they may vary from company to company - then many companies also carry colored bases (such as Red, Green & Gold) to deliver deep/vibrant colors and still provide some degree of hiding...

What makes each of these bases different is the amount (if any) of white pigment (titanium dioxide) each contains (Hi-Hiding White has the most, neutral would have none). The level of TiO2 (titanium dioxide) will impact a product beyond that of just color - for example, a product with a higher amount of tio2 is more opaque and, theoretically, will hide better than one with a lesser amount. A higher level of tio2 also kinda, sorta aides a product's flow and mileage, and to some degree, washability and stain resistance. The downside is that tio2 has sort of a dominant influence on other pigments (in the form of tinting colorants) introduced to a product...In other words, products with a high level of tio2 will not accept tinting colorants as readily as will a base that has significantly less tio2. Let's say your baby pooh brown originally called for a mid-tone base and the formula called for 8 oz. of colorant - that's about the maximum amount of colorant a mid-tone can accept before becoming saturated (primarily due to the tio2 levels - which is less than a white base would have, but more than a deep-tone). More colorant added to a product that is saturated, unfortunately usually results in just a muddy, murky, grayed out version of what you're trying to create. To achieve a deeper, but "cleaner" color (brown, in this example) will probably require either a deep or accent base to realize.

If I understood your comment correctly about your guy opening up 2 different bases and not being able to tell much difference, I'm assuming you were looking at these opened cans un-tinted? If that's the case, you wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference by just looking at wet paint (base) in a can. They'd both look like white...You really wouldn't be able to tell a difference unless you brushed each product on a surface of a different color to see how dramatically a little amount of tio2 will affect the product's ability to hide. If your guy were to tint a gallon of Accent base and Deep-Tone base exactly the same (say, 8 oz. of tinting colorant), you'd have essentially the same color only the Accent base formulation would be about 25% darker than the Deep-Tone base.

Now, having said all that (and remember, you said you really did wanna know), the diaper brown that you have now should still match the chip you originally chose the color from. One of two things may be at play here...(1) if your color doesn't match the chip, it's very possible the color is mixed wrong - which is not an un-common occurrence, and/or (2) because of the strength/depth/intensity of the color, you may need to paint the entire wall or room before deciding if this color is not what you actually had in mind. It's really difficult to look at a small sample of color and determine what it's going to look like on a larger scale - especially with all the environmental surroundings that will absolutely have a reflective impact on the finish color...

I'm not sure if that answered your question...I can't say I really even remember what your question was - but anytime someone asks a question that allows me the opportunity to wax so eloquently, for so long about something so mundane and insignificant as the colorant make up of paint, i can't seem to contain my verbosity.

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Last edited by ric knows paint; 04-25-2013 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:52 PM   #3
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Base tints and the makeup of paint


Wow Ric....you really DO know paint, and what is amazing is I even understood it all. You have brought it down to the average persons level.

Here I thought base was just base - It all makes perfect sense now. Especially about the max allowable tint. That would explain why even when he was adding color it wasn't changing things much after the first few attempts.

The paint did match the chip...I just picked a crappy color (literally). Not too upset though, its the first time I have ever picked a color that I did not like on the wall / trim. Thankfully I have not been banned from picking more. As long as I'm the one doing the painting he doesn't care.

I wish your post could be stickied because it really does explain how it all really works.

I really did want to know and now I do.....and now I'm running down to the big box store to show off

Robyn
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:10 AM   #4
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Base tints and the makeup of paint


Quote:
Originally Posted by forcedreno2012 View Post
Wow Ric....you really DO know paint, and what is amazing is I even understood it all. You have brought it down to the average persons level.

Here I thought base was just base - It all makes perfect sense now. Especially about the max allowable tint. That would explain why even when he was adding color it wasn't changing things much after the first few attempts.

The paint did match the chip...I just picked a crappy color (literally). Not too upset though, its the first time I have ever picked a color that I did not like on the wall / trim. Thankfully I have not been banned from picking more. As long as I'm the one doing the painting he doesn't care.

I wish your post could be stickied because it really does explain how it all really works.

I really did want to know and now I do.....and now I'm running down to the big box store to show off

Robyn

.
You will have WAY more knowledge than anyone there, for sure.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:11 AM   #5
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Base tints and the makeup of paint


Another epic tome from Ric




but a good read, none the less
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:16 AM   #6
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Base tints and the makeup of paint


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....and now I'm running down to the big box store to show off
What a waste of new found knowledge.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:22 AM   #7
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Base tints and the makeup of paint


WOW Ric couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:58 PM   #8
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Base tints and the makeup of paint


Just some added information on the tint bases: white or pastel tint bases are 4 ounces short filled, medium bases are 6 ounces short filled, deep bases are 8 ounces short filled, and accents can vary between 12 and 16 ounces short filled. As noted, this short fill varies by manufacturer.
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:27 PM   #9
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Base tints and the makeup of paint


Additionally, the tints have no drying agents. So you can only put in so much tint:base ratio until you start to actually change the properties of the paint itself. If you ever get paint mixed and it's decently far off, make sure you find a closer color in the company's color wheel or color match it to see if it recommends a deeper base that would be more suitable.

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