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Old 12-31-2013, 06:21 PM   #76
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


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Sure, but all you have to do to get ranked high on AL is to get someone to give you a good recommendation and then pay them ( AL). $$ talks, not the quality of the painter( or whom ever)
Not really sure what you mean. I have a high rating. Yes, they keep calling me asking me to advertise, but I've never paid them a dime. You don't get a higher rating by paying them. What you get is higher visibility - showing up higher on search lists, etc. But not higher reviews. Still, people find me on Angie's List and I've gotten a lot of business from there.

I suppose you could ask a few friends or relatives to give you some reviews. It would be pretty hard to get dozens that way. All my reviews were just volunteered. Can someone pay off people to give them good reviews? I'm sure that's possible.

But let me ask you this: if the contractor involved in this thread were on Angie's List, do you think the OP would give a good or bad review?

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Old 12-31-2013, 06:26 PM   #77
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


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What are you talking about? Contracts are often used when lawsuits and court cases are involved.
Bottom line: as I already said, contracts can't necessarily save you if the contractor is bad. And if he's good, you don't need one.
READ my post and you will see what I am talking about...Happy New Year
rofl

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Old 12-31-2013, 07:08 PM   #78
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


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Not really sure what you mean. I have a high rating. Yes, they keep calling me asking me to advertise, but I've never paid them a dime. You don't get a higher rating by paying them. What you get is higher visibility - showing up higher on search lists, etc. But not higher reviews. Still, people find me on Angie's List and I've gotten a lot of business from there.

I suppose you could ask a few friends or relatives to give you some reviews. It would be pretty hard to get dozens that way. All my reviews were just volunteered. Can someone pay off people to give them good reviews? I'm sure that's possible.

But let me ask you this: if the contractor involved in this thread were on Angie's List, do you think the OP would give a good or bad review?
There are companies who do nothing but post good reviews in exchange for money. Pretty shady, but true!

I would give the worst review possible…except that I signed some document basically saying I wouldn't say anything bad about him in exchange for a big discount on the job (red flag: he had this document at the ready in his truck). Once I have time to consult my lawyer friend about how to get around this, I'll be sure to reveal his name and leave negative reviews everywhere I can.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:20 PM   #79
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


So a combination of intimidation and extortion got you to sign.
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Old 01-01-2014, 12:46 AM   #80
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


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I would give the worst review possible…except that I signed some document basically saying I wouldn't say anything bad about him in exchange for a big discount on the job (red flag: he had this document at the ready in his truck).
What???? Why on earth would you go for something like that??
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:08 AM   #81
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


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There are companies who do nothing but post good reviews in exchange for money. Pretty shady, but true!

I would give the worst review possible…except that I signed some document basically saying I wouldn't say anything bad about him in exchange for a big discount on the job (red flag: he had this document at the ready in his truck). Once I have time to consult my lawyer friend about how to get around this, I'll be sure to reveal his name and leave negative reviews everywhere I can.
It appears you got exactly what you "signed up" for.

If the guy shows a document like that, he already knows he is going to slap on anything he can, as quick as he can.

Looks like he will be coming after you for the balance. He knows his way around judging by the no yak contract he had you sign.
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:47 PM   #82
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


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I'm not the sharpest tool in the box but I can paint. I would never caulk over old caulk. That just don't look right.
There ya go, exactly.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:25 PM   #83
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


Sloan, so sorry your project went the way it did. I've been at it for 34 years and can count on one hand disputes with a homeowner about my work. And, if there was a dispute, I made it right ASAP. Not because of a contract, but because I had pride in what I was doing and I wanted each and every customer to feel like they got MORE THAN A GREAT DEAL. Believe me, there are some great painters out there but they are usually so busy that they can't do every job. Hope it works out. And, by the way, very unprofessional for your painter to use F-bombs in your home……unacceptable.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:52 PM   #84
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


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So a combination of intimidation and extortion got you to sign.
Pretty much.

Jeff, I went for it because the choices were: a) refuse to pay him the balance and hope that he was bluffing about suing us, or b) sign this thing to get a big discount off the balance and never have to deal with this guy again. The document keeps us from speaking badly about him but also includes what the new final balance is. I chose B because even though I think he was probably bluffing about the whole lawsuit thing, if he wasn't and we actually ended up in court I don't think we would win. Like someone said way back, our problems with the paint job itself were just minor things…it's not like he put a hole in our wall or something. I don't think us refusing to pay him would hold up in court based on the wording of our original contract.

I probably should've told him to just get out, paid him nothing and invited him to sue. I doubt he actually would have. But what's done is done, and I'll still report him for painting without a license. It's just a $1K fine, but it'll make me feel better knowing he has to pay it!
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:15 AM   #85
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


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Pretty much.

Jeff, I went for it because the choices were: a) refuse to pay him the balance and hope that he was bluffing about suing us, or b) sign this thing to get a big discount off the balance and never have to deal with this guy again. The document keeps us from speaking badly about him but also includes what the new final balance is. I chose B because even though I think he was probably bluffing about the whole lawsuit thing, if he wasn't and we actually ended up in court I don't think we would win. Like someone said way back, our problems with the paint job itself were just minor things…it's not like he put a hole in our wall or something. I don't think us refusing to pay him would hold up in court based on the wording of our original contract.

I probably should've told him to just get out, paid him nothing and invited him to sue. I doubt he actually would have. But what's done is done, and I'll still report him for painting without a license. It's just a $1K fine, but it'll make me feel better knowing he has to pay it!
Look back at the 4th post by jmayspaint...

"Yes sanding the trim, and often the walls is standard prep. On a 1950's house, lead testing should be done before any sanding/scraping. Fairly high chances of lead paint in houses of that age. Hope your guy is RRP certified as required. "

Was your 1950's house lead tested? Were you given the proper information materials prior to him starting the job? Was your signature given on a proper EPA document that the painter contractor has on file proving that you were informed of the hazards of lead? If he sanded anything in your house....... could be a big uh oh for him. There is a company in my area that just went through hell because of a teed-off customer. And he is now scrutinized by the EPA on every job he puts his hands on. This guy has been in business longer than me, over 35 years. I'm betting he will fold soon due to the pressure. It's sad for him, he's a great guy but one little slip up and things can get ugly real fast.


Violations of the Toxic Substances Control Act (“TSCA”), the Residential Lead-Based Paint Hazard Reduction Act, and the Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule (“RRP Rule”), 40 C.F.R. Part 745, Subpart E. The ESA alleges the following RRP Rule violations:
•Failure to Document Delivery of the Lead Hazard Information Pamphlet to the Property Owners. The United States alleges that Mac *****er violated the Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule by failing to document that it provided a copy of the “Renovate Right” pamphlet to two of the property owners prior to commencing renovation activities.
•Failure to Establish and Maintain Records. The Unites States alleges that Mac Stringer violated the Renovation, Repair, and Painting Rule by failing to establish and maintain records certifying that the work practice standards required by the RRP Rule were complied with at each of the three properties.
Civil Penalty
A local company here in my area was just fined $5000.00 for not conforming. to the EPA requirements.
Mac ******er Painting Co.will pay a penalty of $5,000 pursuant to the Lead-based Paint Expedited Settlement Agreement Pilot Program. Under the ESA pilot, significantly reduced penalties are offered to respondents in order to facilitate quick settlement.

If you think this guy isn't even licensed by your state to do work I would wonder if he is licensed by the Federal EPA, which is a must.

http://www2.epa.gov/enforcement/lead...le#macstringer

And look at just how serious this stuff can be... people can wind up in PRISON easily for non-conformance, not just be fined. This is no joking matter now-a-days.
Examples of Investigations that Led to Successful Prosecutions

Baltimore City Landlord Sentenced to Prison for Lead Paint Violations

On June 6, 2012, Cephus R. Murrell was sentenced to a year and a day in prison, followed by six months of home detention as part of one year supervised release, for improper lead paint abatement at rental properties owned and managed by Murrell, as well as failure to disclose to tenants the presence of documented lead-based paint hazards.
Murrell is the president and owner of C. MURRELL BUSINESS CONSULTANTS, INC., through which Murrell owns and manages approximately 68 rental properties with 175 rental housing units throughout Baltimore. All of these properties were built before 1978 and are subject to federal, state and local laws and regulations pertaining to the risks associated with lead-paint exposure. The Maryland Department of the Environment (MDE) or its predecessor agencies have conducted environmental lead inspections for many years at properties owned by Murrell after discovering that children with elevated lead blood levels were living there. These inspections identified numerous lead hazards in tenants’ homes. The state of Maryland and the city of Baltimore have issued more than 20 Notices of Violation and compliance orders against Murrell and/or his company, C. Murrell Business Consultants, for lead-based paint violations, including situations in which a child with an elevated blood lead level was documented as living in a rental property leased by Murrell. Additionally, Murrell entered into a number of Consent Decrees with the State and City of Baltimore designed to achieve compliance with applicable lead requirements.
On July 19, 2011, Murrell pleaded guilty to three misdemeanor counts of violating the Toxic Substances Control Act. According to his guilty plea, Murrell had workers conduct lead-paint abatement work at one of his apartments while the tenants and their children were present on site, in violation of the lead-paint abatement regulations. In addition, Murrell admitted that there were several instances in which he falsely certified to MDE that workers would be conducting lead abatement work and that a particular supervisor would be on site to supervise the work, when in fact, no supervisor was on site, also in violation of the lead-paint abatement regulations. Finally, Murrell admitted that he and his company failed to disclose to tenants the presence of documented lead-based paint hazards when they rented units he owned and managed. Many of these units had a history of lead-based paint problems that had been documented by MDE.

Just saying... paybacks can be a real Bwitch. Makes one wonder if getting loud, if throwing F-bombs and threatening gestures around, could come back to cost you, dearly.
The next time some shady character tosses a "No Talkie" Contract your way, toss them back a EPA Lead RRP Brochure if he wasn't legit in the first place and see what he says then.

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Old 01-02-2014, 11:14 AM   #86
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


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Jeff, I went for it because the choices were: a) refuse to pay him the balance and hope that he was bluffing about suing us, or b) sign this thing to get a big discount off the balance and never have to deal with this guy again.
Oh I see, this was something you signed after you started having an issue. Well, that makes sense I guess. I thought you signed that up front when he gave an estimate.
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Old 01-02-2014, 11:32 AM   #87
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Oh I see, this was something you signed after you started having an issue. Well, that makes sense I guess. I thought you signed that up front when he gave an estimate.
I thought the same thing as well.
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Old 01-02-2014, 11:35 AM   #88
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


After he is gone I would contact everyone I could and tell them what happened ask them to send in a bad review, done everyday and why places like Angies is so unreliable. If you have a TV station in your area that does consumer segments contact them. Take a copy of the thing he made you sign and some pics. Take them to your local paint stores, all of them. They may recommending this guy. In fact if it was me I might take his paperwork and a lot of pics and look into small claims.
Sorry but I get a little carried away over something like this. It hurts everyone of us that is out there busting his a## everyday to do a great job and make their customers happy.
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Old 01-02-2014, 11:48 AM   #89
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Am I being OCD/too demanding, or is the painter lazy?


I know. Like my sister - she had some yahoo come in to her bathroom and did a crap job. He was kind of a low life, and didn't look like he made much money. She felt sorry for him - didn't want to withhold his money or give him a bad review. I told her she was doing everyone a disservice - her, his competitors who do good work and deserve the job, other customers, and yes even him, because he needs to learn the lesson that he needs to improve his work or get into a different line of work.
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:19 PM   #90
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Oh I see, this was something you signed after you started having an issue. Well, that makes sense I guess. I thought you signed that up front when he gave an estimate.
Ha!!! That would be shady as hell.

Thanks for the ideas guys. I'm definitely going to be talking to one of my lawyer friends to see what all I can get away with despite having signed this document, as I suspect this guy will continue to do this to other people.

My husband and I went looking for the original contract we signed…we know where we left it, and it's gone. Almost sure the guy stole it. What the heck?!

Some people are the worst. I'm eternally grateful to all you guys for your advice and support, this situation has sucked but it's been immensely helpful to have some professional painters available to talk to about it!

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