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-   -   Alkyd alternative for painting shelves and casings (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/alkyd-alternative-painting-shelves-casings-166404/)

scyarch 12-13-2012 07:36 PM

Alkyd alternative for painting shelves and casings
 
So... I've tried about 5 different google searches to no avail and I'm hoping someone here can help (also tried a search but my phone was brig disagreeable tonight).

I live in California, land of the tree huggers and where every man made product known to man has been recognized by the state to causes of cancer and birth defects. The question is in regards to alkyd paint replacements. It's getting uneconomic and hard to find any oil paints for shelves and we've been painting with latex for shelves on our apt units to my dismay for awhile. We've given up the Kilz boat for the Zinsser Bulls-Eye on primer use but I'm trying to find a good alternative to paint shelves with to prevent blocking. Is there anyone familiar with what can be bought around here since oil based is sadly out of the question? Have they started producing any latex or water based paints that don't have the soft latex blocking issues? I've been painting a trial shelf with a few thin coats of zinsser bullseye and its not blocking like the Kilz used to, however I'm looking for a top coat, for bathrooms etc. Unless using multiple thin coats from a foam roller for an ultra smooth and hard finish is the way to go... It just takes awhile.

And if someone is aware of another thread this is answered on, please let me know and I'll apologize for the double post. Thanks guys (and girls? If you're on this site ;)

Gymschu 12-13-2012 08:12 PM

I have used Proclassic from Sherwin-Williams to do shelves and bookcases. I have even used it in my own home and haven't had any problems with blocking. Of course, I let things dry for about a week before putting anything on the shelves, etc. You may not have that luxury with time since these are rental units that you want to rent out ASAP.

Brushjockey 12-13-2012 09:02 PM

Everything you mentioned was a primer. Not meant to be top coat.
That said, many "finish" waterbornes have blocking ( sticking) problems.
Try Muralo semi or BM Advance. And you need to give any paint , particularly waterbornes a bit of time to cure.
In the meantime- a very light dusting of talcum (baby) powder helps .

jschaben 12-13-2012 09:44 PM

S-W Solo is supposed to be formulated with anti-blocking properties, according to my S-W guy. I used it some but not enough to say it actually does.

scyarch 12-13-2012 10:20 PM

Sorry about the discrepancy. We've gotten lazy and tired of the Behr semi-gloss (I know, I know, I know- Behr is bad..) blocking, and just started to go with the Kilz making a paint over job a little easier. Which also seemed to block less as well- but it still was there.

As far as changing brands of paint- I'm slowly dragging my parents away from our stash of Behr (the last of which we are using to finish painting this one vacancy) and going back to SW. We used them a little in the past but Depot was cost efficient and easier to go to and be done with, however- my dad is slowly changing mentalities of getting what you pay for, so we will be going back to them for the future paint jobs.

I'll look into both SW and BM (not aware of an immediate BM paint store nearby that's totally reasonable in costs, however- after having dealt with a big box store, maybe my perception of reasonable costs is a bit skewed... what was a $4-5 empty bucket at one local store was like a $2 something bucket at Depot... or 2-4 for a white one). Maybe my local OSH stocks BM..

Also- with the cure time, I understand time is required, but when there is blocking a month down the road, or more... it becomes a little bit too much.

Thanks for the responses, much appreciated!

ToolSeeker 12-14-2012 09:13 AM

Question guys I know things like Japan drier will help with dry times will it do anything for cure times?

Gymschu 12-14-2012 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToolSeeker (Post 1072861)
Question guys I know things like Japan drier will help with dry times will it do anything for cure times?

Good question ToolSeeker. I have used it in oils and alkyds and, yea, it speeded dry time up a little bit but not much I probably did not add enough in.........sounds like a chemistry question when you talk about cure times with JP.

ric knows paint 12-14-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToolSeeker (Post 1072861)
Question guys I know things like Japan drier will help with dry times will it do anything for cure times?

Hey TS,

The simple answer is no. Alkyds and oils cure by oxidation - not solvent evaporation. The Japan Drier you are able to buy today is a blend of solvents that may allow for faster dry-to-touch time, but has no bearing on cure time - the Japan Drier of yesteryear did contain certain metallic driers, that have since been banned for health and safety reasons, but also did not speed up ultimate cure time.

To Scyarch - I'm not familiar with a lot of California made paints (Mr. Paint would probably know), but there are several low-blocking acrylics on the market today - Graham Paints (owned by Muralo Paints) makes the absolute best (IMO), labeled as Graham Aqua-Borne Ceramic Satin, Muralo's Ultra Ceramic may be the exact same thing - and Insl-X (owned by Ben Moore) makes a really nice product called Cabinet Coat...However, I'm not sure any of those products are available in CA. If you can't find those, or other suitable coatings, consider a high quality acrylic floor enamel (usually a Satin or Semi finish) - many manufacturers use the same low-blocking acrylics in floor finishes as in industrial finishes. Good luck.

scyarch 12-14-2012 12:16 PM

It didn't occur to look at floor enamels. Thanks. I also have a rant. Was at depot the other night and what do I see? Behr, water-cleanup... Alkyd.

Me: All done and out of Behr paint!! I can move on to a new brand cause they don't have an Alkyd type that I can purchase here for a decent price. Thank goodness.

Life: hahahahaha. Here you go- :throws wrench: "Enjoy"

Me: #*$!!!!!

I want more bones and less wrenches :P

ric knows paint 12-14-2012 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scyarch (Post 1072963)
It didn't occur to look at floor enamels. Thanks. I also have a rant. Was at depot the other night and what do I see? Behr, water-cleanup... Alkyd.

Me: All done and out of Behr paint!! I can move on to a new brand cause they don't have an Alkyd type that I can purchase here for a decent price. Thank goodness.

Life: hahahahaha. Here you go- :throws wrench: "Enjoy"

Me: #*$!!!!!

I want more bones and less wrenches :P


Water-reducible alkyds have actually been around for years - only recently, with all the compliancy issues, have they been offered to the consumer (or general public). So, this is not an entirely un-tested technology...and many of the brands I'm familiar with are exceptional products. They apply like an alkyd - dry like an acrylic - wear like an alkyd - clean-up like an acrylic...kinda sorta like the best of both worlds (but only if the exposure calls for an alkyd product)...Remember this when working with water-reducible (or water-borne) alkyds - once the evaporative solvent is gone (in this case it's mostly water) they are alkyd finishes, with all the distinct strengths, weaknesses, advantages and disadvantages of alkyds - and even though they clean up with water, they have none of the acrylic advantages, disadvantages, strengths and weakness...

ToolSeeker 12-14-2012 04:27 PM

Hey Ric if your still around would something like Ben Moore's Advance whice is touted as a hybrid work in this situation? And I guess the question is it available in Ca.

Brushjockey 12-14-2012 04:31 PM

Tool- Advance is just as Ric said- all oil , except with water vehicle. A hybrid also has acrylic as a component.

But I do think it does come in pretty low in the blocking dept after a fair dry.

ToolSeeker 12-14-2012 04:41 PM

Thanks Brush If it has that much oil it's probably banned in Ca. also.

Brushjockey 12-14-2012 05:20 PM

It's oil but not petroleum based. And I think it's very low VOC.

Will22 12-18-2012 09:44 AM

The oil/acrylics sold in HD (3537/3538, semi-gloss and gloss, respectively) would be fine for this purpose, as they provide protection against blocking like traditional latex formulations. They are also compliant where you are, as they are under 50g/L in VOC. They can be tinted to many colors as well. Porch and Floor paints, as noted, are also good alternatives.


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