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Old 09-09-2009, 03:28 PM   #1
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Advice needed on paint prep...


I am in the process of prepping the interior of a closet for painting. The existing paint on there now is oil based and probably put on sometime in the '70s (although I'm not positive of exactly when).

Anyway, there were some areas where it was scraped off a bit (I think where clothes would rub against it). When I went to sand/degloss I found that some of the paint will flake off under not mush pressure; however, it's not peeling at all. I have attached pics to see what I'm talking about; I think that is primer beneath the paint, but I'm not positive.

My question is, can I wash with TSP and then prime at this point? Or will it all be for not, and the paint will start to peel or flake eventually? If it's not ready to prime at this point, what are my options?

Also, I attached another pic of some of the trim. I sanded this down a bit, and plan to wash with TSP and then prime. What do you think, is it ready for that?

Thanks a lot for your help!










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Advice needed on paint prep...-picture-2.jpg   Advice needed on paint prep...-picture-1.jpg   Advice needed on paint prep...-picture-3.jpg   Advice needed on paint prep...-picture-4.jpg  

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Old 09-09-2009, 05:52 PM   #2
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Advice needed on paint prep...


If the paint is that fragile, you really need to get the loose stuff off or your top coat will fail. Get a lead test kit first.

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Old 09-09-2009, 06:03 PM   #3
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Advice needed on paint prep...


Maybe I can help you, but I need you to do 3 tests for me in that area.

1 ) Take goof-off or oops on a rag, wipe the present finish coat to see if the paint dissolves onto the rag. if it does then it is a latex.

2) Do the same test on what looks to be the under coat, and see if it dissolves onto the rag, and also can you tell me if that shine I see is a glossy surface or a reflection from the camera .

3) Take a piece of masking tape about 6 inches long , and stick it to what is at this time the finish coat. stick it on good and tight. Now rip it off, how much paint pulled off the wall onto the tape if any.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:45 PM   #4
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Advice needed on paint prep...


Thank you guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthewt1970 View Post
Get a lead test kit first.
I'm pretty sure at least the top coat doesn't contain lead because the previous home-owner left the can, and it doesn't say anything about lead on it. Not sure though about the paint (or primer?) under the top coat though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouLewyLewis View Post
Maybe I can help you, but I need you to do 3 tests for me in that area.

1 ) Take goof-off or oops on a rag, wipe the present finish coat to see if the paint dissolves onto the rag. if it does then it is a latex.

2) Do the same test on what looks to be the under coat, and see if it dissolves onto the rag, and also can you tell me if that shine I see is a glossy surface or a reflection from the camera .

3) Take a piece of masking tape about 6 inches long , and stick it to what is at this time the finish coat. stick it on good and tight. Now rip it off, how much paint pulled off the wall onto the tape if any.
For #1, I know the top coat is oil, because like I said above, the previous home-owner left the can.

For #2, I don't currently have any goof-off, but can pick some up next time I am at the store. As far as the shine, it is definitely has a somewhat glossy finish to it, but the camera flash makes it look a bit glossier than it actually is.

For #3, I did it twice. Once were there was no flaking at all, and once right over the flaking area. The one were there was no flaking pulled of just a tiny bit of paint, in total about the size of a quarter. The second one over the already flaking area, resulted in paint all over the piece of tape.

This can't be good! Something tells me this is going to be difficult to resolve...
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:38 AM   #5
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Advice needed on paint prep...


Do to your home being a pre 1978 house, it creates a small problem in giving you advice on a open forum . Due to the fact you have a potential that you have lead base paints in your home.

The only way to be sure is to have it tested by a certified lead abatement person. I would say go to a paint store and get one of their lead test kits. But they are not accurate.

You seem to be a handy guy when it comes to fixing things in your home. But before you do any more work in your house, please have it tested. For your safety. Older homes are nice , but they contain dangers that most people don't know about.

On my profile here , under contact information you will see my web site. Please go there and look under, For your safety , and children in danger, you will see all the dangers in pre 1978 homes that you need to know.

Also on my web site , you will see contact us. It will give you my home phone number, please feel free to contact me for further advice.

You may get my answer machine, but leave a message, and I will call you back. I have unlimited long distance. I truly do want to help you, but I want you to be safe in the process.
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Old 09-10-2009, 04:34 AM   #6
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Advice needed on paint prep...


[
it creates a small problem in giving you advice on a open forum .


Why?
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:45 AM   #7
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Advice needed on paint prep...


Quote:
Originally Posted by LouLewyLewis View Post
I would say go to a paint store and get one of their lead test kits. But they are not accurate.
I thought those were pretty much spot on.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:01 AM   #8
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Advice needed on paint prep...


Since I have the can of paint for that top beige coat, wouldn't the can say if there was lead in it?

Also, I agree I should do some sort of test. I was going to buy the lead test kit from HD, but that particular one got really bad reviews on consumer reports, so I would like to find a different test kit.

What do you think of that pic of just the trim? Does that look ready for washing and priming, or is more de-glosssing necessary?

As far as the closet interior, I guess one option would be to wash, prime and paint, and then if there are any issues down the road I could address them at that time. Although I really want to do it right the first time...
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:48 PM   #9
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Advice needed on paint prep...


Ok, I just tested for lead with the Homax Lead Check kit, and everything came back with no lead.

So, 2 questions:

1) Is the trim de-glossed enough at this point to prime (last pic)

2) What to do now with the interior of the closet? (first 3 pics)
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:25 PM   #10
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Advice needed on paint prep...


What are you planning to use as a primer? If it were my job,I would oil prime all of it and go ahead and paint.( after removing all the loose stuff,)
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:39 PM   #11
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Advice needed on paint prep...


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisn View Post
What are you planning to use as a primer? If it were my job,I would oil prime all of it and go ahead and paint.( after removing all the loose stuff,)
Interesting. I was actually going to use a latex primer - either BM Fresh Start or Kilz2 - and then paint with latex paint. Would an oil primer be better? I have heard that those latex primers would work pretty well.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:01 PM   #12
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Advice needed on paint prep...


As long as you feel comfortable with a over the counter lead test kit, then that's fine. I know painters that epa fined heavily because of them. A certified lead tester is more accurate test.

For the wall I suggest you sand them down with 220 sand paper to remove as much gloss off the surface as possible, and to remove any flaking paint. Pay particular attention to the areas that the undercoat is showing through. Remove as much gloss and loose paint as possible. Wipe walls with a wet rag to remove all dust. Let wall dry completely.

You indicated that you think the paint on walls now is oil paint.With out you testing them I have to go on the assumption that you are right. So I suggest you prime your walls with a oil primer. I like kilz tinted to what ever my final color will be. Put one coat of primer on. And let dry. Kilz will dry in about 45 min. Give it more drying time that that due to it being in a closet, and the lack of circulation of air. Kilz has a strong Oder and will make you a little dizzy , So make sure the room is well ventilated with fresh air.

Kilz dries to a flat finish , Choose your finish coat latex or oil ,flat,satin,semi,what ever sheen you want. Put 2 coats of finish of your choice you choose. When dry your done. Now let paint dry for several day before you start using your closet again.

I don't know what you have on your trim, oil or latex. If you think it is oil,or have tested it with test I given you earlier , and if it is oil then sand to remove any shine, and give primer something to bite on to. Use the same procedures as the interior closet.

If it is a latex then lightly sand, wipe with damp cloth to remove dirt and dust. Prime with good interior latex primer tinted to finish color. For the finish coat use any good latex finish paint of your choice, in the sheen and color you like and choose. I myself like PPG. Portor Paints. Others have their own favorites. And you may have your own favorite paint company.

You ask is my trim ready for paint now. Due to the flash of the camera, and the slight shine I see, I would suggest giving it a quick sanding to give your new paint more area to bite on to.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:28 PM   #13
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Advice needed on paint prep...


Thanks for all of the info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouLewyLewis View Post
As long as you feel comfortable with a over the counter lead test kit, then that's fine.
I agree, but still it makes me feel better. Also, I have the actual can of paint for that top coat (from previous owner), so I know for a fact that it's oil, and also, it says nothing about lead on the can either, although not sure if it would anyway... But regardless, definitely oil based, and almost definitely no lead...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouLewyLewis View Post
So I suggest you prime your walls with a oil primer. I like kilz tinted to what ever my final color will be. Put one coat of primer on. And let dry. Kilz will dry in about 45 min. Give it more drying time that that due to it being in a closet, and the lack of circulation of air. Kilz has a strong Oder and will make you a little dizzy , So make sure the room is well ventilated with fresh air.
Is there anyway I can use a latex primer? I was told that BM Fresh Start and Kilz2, both latex primers, work well over oil paint. Any experience/info on that? I would like to use latex for the easier cleanup, less odor etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouLewyLewis View Post
I don't know what you have on your trim, oil or latex. If you think it is oil,or have tested it with test I given you earlier , and if it is oil then sand to remove any shine, and give primer something to bite on to. Use the same procedures as the interior closet.

If it is a latex then lightly sand, wipe with damp cloth to remove dirt and dust. Prime with good interior latex primer tinted to finish color. For the finish coat use any good latex finish paint of your choice, in the sheen and color you like and choose. I myself like PPG. Portor Paints. Others have their own favorites. And you may have your own favorite paint company.

You ask is my trim ready for paint now. Due to the flash of the camera, and the slight shine I see, I would suggest giving it a quick sanding to give your new paint more area to bite on to.
The trim is the exact same paint as the closet. I agree, I think it needs a bit more sanding. I will do that. Of course I have the same question on this as the closet interior; can I use a latex primer?

Thanks again!
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:52 PM   #14
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Advice needed on paint prep...


Yes.... But you have to do a lot of sanding to remove as much shine as you can . When you remove the shine, you are scratching the oil surface and creating areas for the latex primer to bite on to , and gives it more surface to adhere to. The sanding of a oil is very labor intensive.

This is why we suggest using a oil primer . Better adhesion to the previous oil paint. And less chance of you not getting it sanded enough for a latex primer to adhere to the oil.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouLewyLewis View Post
Yes.... But you have to do a lot of sanding to remove as much shine as you can . When you remove the shine, you are scratching the oil surface and creating areas for the latex primer to bite on to , and gives it more surface to adhere to. The sanding of a oil is very labor intensive.

This is why we suggest using a oil primer . Better adhesion to the previous oil paint. And less chance of you not getting it sanded enough for a latex primer to adhere to the oil.
Cool, that makes sense.

I may end up sanding it more thoroughly and using the latex primer, but I'll consider the oil primer too.

This is the only room in the house with painted trim, so it wouldn't bother me to put more time into the sanding seeing as this is the only room I'll need to do that too...

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