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-   -   Acrylic Solid Stain vs Oil Semi Trans or Semi solid (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/acrylic-solid-stain-vs-oil-semi-trans-semi-solid-107738/)

torxx 06-15-2011 11:50 AM

Acrylic Solid Stain vs Oil Semi Trans or Semi solid
 
Acrylic Solid Stain vs Oil Semi Transparent or Oil Semi solid stain. That is the decision i have to make. Cabot is going to provide the product and my cedar shingle company will pay for the labor. Shingles were originally pre-stained with two coats of oil based semi-trans (new redwood color).

cabot is kinda pushing the solid acrylic stain??

My only concern is potential for peeling down the road. It seems that this is a real concern with sold stain and not a concern at all with oil.

any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. does cabot semi-solid oil penetrate the same as semi trans?

hammerheart14 06-15-2011 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torxx (Post 667727)
Acrylic Solid Stain vs Oil Semi Transparent or Oil Semi solid stain. That is the decision i have to make. Cabot is going to provide the product and my cedar shingle company will pay for the labor. Shingles were originally pre-stained with two coats of oil based semi-trans (new redwood color).

cabot is kinda pushing the solid acrylic stain??

My only concern is potential for peeling down the road. It seems that this is a real concern with sold stain and not a concern at all with oil.

any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. does cabot semi-solid oil penetrate the same as semi trans?


DON'T DO IT!!!!! I can make a solid OIL STAIN not peel (spray on one coat and back brush), but a solid acrylic stain will peel like paint, UNLESS IT'S APPLIED to rough sawn surfaces, like t-111 or the like. Just doesn't soak in like a true oil.

Anyways, I would either go with an oil based semi trans or an oil based semi solid. The semi trans will show more wood grain, but fade faster than a semi solid, but the semi solid will show LESS wood grain. If you go with the semi trans be sure to ask for the 0300 series, and if you go with the semi solid, ask for the 1400 series. these are the higher voc products, so they might or might not be available to you, depending on where you live.

Just to be clear, if you do go with either product, the end result must be brushed on, one coat only. if the wood sucks the product in and it doesn't llok like you did anything, apply a second coat with an hour's tiem or less (This is called applying two coats WET ON WET. APPLY only as much stain as the wood will take. If you apply a second coat after the first coat has dried, then you are building a FILM and it will fail faster and peel. Good luck.

user1007 06-17-2011 02:55 PM

Any time you leave a solid pigment behind on a non-primed surface you run the risk of it peeling loose over time whether it was carried in solvents or water. Oil based solid stains have been around a long time and I guess I would lean toward them if I did not know about MABs solid color acrylic exterior stain products. I will match it against any oil based product out there. In addition to other nice qualities, it has superior UV protection so if you go back to touch up in a year or two it is easy to blend in.

I do not know the Cabot stain line well enough to offer a preference to you. I know contractors that did a lot more stain work than I did seemed to like the brand. To answer your question though, the semi-transparent should penetrate more than the semi-solid since your goal with one is to leave something on the surface and not be soaked into the wood.

Faron79 06-17-2011 07:52 PM

What style of siding is this?
Shakes or Clapboards?
Was the original job back-primed/stained b4 installation?!

>>> This is a HUGE part of the equation...

What type(s) of failure led to your present situation?
Age of siding too....?

Faron

housepaintingny 06-17-2011 08:27 PM

I have applied countless gallons of acrylic solid stain to all types of wood siding and fences over the years from Cabot and Sherwin Williams and have never had any of it peel. If its peeling its probally from poor quality material or improper prep prior to application. I have seen oil base film forming stain crack, peel, and flake.

Gymschu 06-17-2011 08:52 PM

HPNY, I can second what you are saying. I have stained countless houses with SW's Woodscapes, for example, and have never had a peeling issue. Occasionally I get some premature fading, but, that's the only complaint I have had using solid color stain.

hammerheart14 06-19-2011 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymschu (Post 669127)
HPNY, I can second what you are saying. I have stained countless houses with SW's Woodscapes, for example, and have never had a peeling issue. Occasionally I get some premature fading, but, that's the only complaint I have had using solid color stain.

I have seen solid acrylic stains peel over many smooth wood exterior surfaces. It was applied correctly, sprayed and back brushed, one coat only. It just can't penetrate into the wood like an oil. SO, i would only recommend ANY solid stain, over a more rough sawn surface, esp. if it was an acrylic.

Domochu 06-21-2011 01:50 PM

I'm about to pull the trigger on some Benjamin Moore Arborcoat Solid stain (100% acrylic)...they said it's fine to use it over old finish as long as I sand it down prior to application and it's not loose (not peeling).

I cannot completely remove the old finish (joints, etc...) so by using a semi-trans stain, I will risk the chance that there will be spots that still have some old finish underneath and the stain won't be able to penetrate the wood...so even if it's oil stain, if it can't penetrate the wood, it won't do any good.

Anyway, I'll keep you posted on how it turns out.

Took a piece of wood that I replaced, gave it a pass with the orbital on 60 grit and applied some sample on it. So far, it looks good and the old finish (that I purposely left some) is masked.

Matthewt1970 06-22-2011 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerheart14 (Post 669804)
I have seen solid acrylic stains peel over many smooth wood exterior surfaces. It was applied correctly, sprayed and back brushed, one coat only. It just can't penetrate into the wood like an oil. SO, i would only recommend ANY solid stain, over a more rough sawn surface, esp. if it was an acrylic.

Same. Latex just doesn't behave like an oil stain will. Oil will fade and wear off layer my layer till it's time to stain again.

mitch12533 06-30-2012 12:23 PM

Hello I know this is an old thread but I have a similar situation.

I just bought a house built in 1987 with cedar siding. It is a contemporary style home with a solid grey staing that is peeling.

1)What is the best way to prep this? I have been told I cant get the peeling stain off with a pressure washer on avery low setting? But I have also read this cna damage the wood.

2)I want to apply semi solid or solid stain roughly the same color without it peeling in the future. I figured I will test a section with semi solid and see if it looks OK. If not I will go with a solid stain. WHat is my best bet (brand also Oil vs Acrylic)?

3)Should I use a mildew cleaner ahead of time?

hammerheart14 06-30-2012 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch12533 (Post 954728)
Hello I know this is an old thread but I have a similar situation.

I just bought a house built in 1987 with cedar siding. It is a contemporary style home with a solid grey staning that is peeling.

1)What is the best way to prep this? I have been told I cant get the peeling stain off with a pressure washer on a very low setting? But I have also read this can damage the wood.

2)I want to apply semi solid or solid stain roughly the same color without it peeling in the future. I figured I will test a section with semi solid and see if it looks OK. If not I will go with a solid stain. WHat is my best bet (brand also Oil vs Acrylic)?

3)Should I use a mildew cleaner ahead of time?

The best way to remove the peeling is to sand it off. It is MUCH better than just pressure washing UNLESS the cedar wood is rough sawn, which means you can ONLY use a pressure washer. So, the steps taken to prep is:

1. Pressure Wash on LOW or use a regular hose to remove any dust, spider webs, dirt, ect. If the wood is smooth, and you're gonna sand, you still must pressure wash BEFORE you sand because you must clean the surface first. Do not sand then pressure wash, that is bad. Water raises the grain of the wood, so it's pointless to sand first than pressure wash. Pressure wash FIRST! And then wait at LEST TWO DAYS for the wood to dry before you stain! You will not need to bleach/clean the wood, because it's gonna be less work to go with a solid oil stain, which will hide that. And yes, OIL penetrates better into wood, than an acrylic, ESPECIALLY WOODS THAT PRODUCE TANNIN ACIDS such as Redwood or Cedar (because oil seals that back, not acrylic). IF YOU SAND, be VERY CAREFUL, where a dust mask. Cedar will stay in your lungs forever, and be sure to shower before you handle any reptiles (if you own any, I own a snake, cedar is poison to reptiles)

2. If the wood is rough sawn, then pressure wash on a little higher setting to remove flakes, BUT be careful not to mess up the wood. You can carve it real good. IF THE WOOD is smooth, then the best way to get rid of peeling is to sand with a palm sander (be careful, cedar wood is soft, do not use a grinder, unless you have a LOT of experience). IF you go with a semi solid, you will have to do A LOT OF SANDING!!!! I would stick with a SOLID OIL STAIN by Benjamin Moore. Plus, by using a solid oil stain, you only need to lightly sand everywhere if possible, and be sure to sand the areas that are peeling, feather those out.When you apply it, BE SURE to either spray AND back brush WITH A DECENT CHINA BRISTLE brush, OR JUST BRUSH it with the same brush. Be sure to NOT APPLY when it's hot and the sun is beating directly on the siding, cooking it. Wait until it's shady on the side you're gonna stain. Corona and Purdy make good brushes, and you may want a three or four inch brush, if you're gonna brush siding. VERY IMPORTANT AS WELL, APPLY ONLY ONE COAT for a solid oil stain. One coat is enough. Less is more with stain, do not over apply, or it WILL peel, which defeats the purpose of a stain. So spray and back brush with a china bristle brush, one coat only in the shade. Oh, and one last thing, before you apply your first coat, take your brush and brush in any areas that are raw wood ONLY first, before you apply the first coat. That way you do not get highs and lows, everything will look uniform. Good luck, here's what I would use:

http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/f...0&advs=0&tab=3

Use paint thinner or oderless paint thinner to clean up and use a roller ONLY IF THE WOOD IS ROUGH SAWN (try to use a lambswool roller). If the wood is smooth, then you must use a brush. If you're gonna spray, back roll if wood is rough sawn, back brush if wood is smooth.

If this is confusing to you, PM me and I'll give you my number. You can call me, and I'll go over it with you on the phone. Or give me your number, I have magic jack, so i can call free anywhere in the US.

operagost 07-02-2012 02:52 PM

Or just rip it all off and install vinyl siding. I'm all for doing it right, but hand sanding and brushing an entire house? Fortunately, that's not what the stain manufacturers I've looked at require for their warranties. I would do more than the minimum, but it looks like that requires retiree-level free time and a much taller ladder than I have. I'm sure it looks incredible++, but the best I can do is very good.

How do you know if your wood is "rough sawn"? My cedar siding is not smooth, but it's not splintery like shakes either.

hammerheart14 07-02-2012 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by operagost (Post 956204)
Or just rip it all off and install vinyl siding. I'm all for doing it right, but hand sanding and brushing an entire house? Fortunately, that's not what the stain manufacturers I've looked at require for their warranties. I would do more than the minimum, but it looks like that requires retiree-level free time and a much taller ladder than I have. I'm sure it looks incredible++, but the best I can do is very good.

How do you know if your wood is "rough sawn"? My cedar siding is not smooth, but it's not splintery like shakes either.

If you want your product to last as long as possible and not do it again soon, then THAT'S the way to do it. EVERY stain product I have come across says the end result must be brushed unless rough surfaces, use an oil roller cover. HOWEVER, any painter and paint salesman (me) worth his salt knows this. If you do not have the time to do it yourself and no equipment, don't you think it would be better to hire a professional painter familiar with oil stain? In the long run, you're gonna save more money to have it professionally done the right way, have it last ten years, than do it yourself half-assed (sorry if this sounded mean) and have it last three years. Remember, it's important to sand because YOU NEED THE STAIN TO PENETRATE. As long as it's not super rough, you can sand it. IF IT IS rough, use a pressure washer., let it dry a few days, then spray it on and back roll.

Remember though, I said SPRAY and back brush. If you have ever sprayed before, it's MUCH EASIER to brush the product in when it's ALREADY on the wall. It's not like you're dipping the brush in your bucket every minute. Anyways, this advice you got from me is the best you're gonna get in your situation. What you chose to do with this VALUEABLE advice is your business. Good luck. Just remember, THERE'S NOT many painters out there who know a lot about exterior stains, so be careful.

operagost 07-02-2012 04:25 PM

What kind of sprayer? Air, airless? Brands? PSI?

hammerheart14 07-02-2012 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by operagost (Post 956264)
What kind of sprayer? Air, airless? Brands? PSI?

For most paint and stain jobs and in this circumstance, you want to use an airless. I prefer Titan, but whatever you can rent at the local paint or hardware store. the Titan 400 would be perfect for what you're doing. Make sure you use a 515 tip, that way you get a ten inch fan AND it's big enough for the solid stain to go through the tip. So, 515 tip, that's important.


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