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-   -   1-part epoxy floor paints - how's the hide on these? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/1-part-epoxy-floor-paints-hows-hide-these-13718/)

joeyboy 11-24-2007 01:24 PM

1-part epoxy floor paints - how's the hide on these?
 
I have been unable to find much, if any really, relevant info on garage floor paints.


I think I'm just going to use this standard 1 part epoxy behr (I know, I know) stuff.




I was wondering what kind of hide/thickness this may have as I'm beginning floor prep and want an idea of how perfect I need to be when raising voids and scrape/sanding high spots.

Rehabber 11-24-2007 04:20 PM

That stuff won't hide anything, and it doesn't last very well either. I used it once at a customers request, and neither one of us was very impressed. :icon_rolleyes:

slickshift 11-24-2007 06:08 PM

Once again, I can honestly say that I have not seen or even heard of that Behr garage floor "epoxy" lasting loner than a few months
And I should add that most didn't make it a few weeks

I'm not trying to pick on them, I've simply never seen or heard of a satisfied customer
There must be some out there....
Even a horrible 20% failure rate, means 80% went OK (though it also means you probably shouldn't risk using it)
But nope...sorry...nothing but horror stories
the failure rate must be HUGE
I think you will be much more satisfied with a concrete stain or a true epoxy

joeyboy 11-24-2007 07:06 PM

I know I know!!! I hate it! But my general idea is to just get quite a bit more than I need and do touchups.

The problem is that I don't have a lot of good options here unless I want to just go with tiles, which I don't.

The real, 2-part epoxy systems still have ridiculous failure rates - and I read that on contractor talk. If I'm reading that there, I've got no interest in playing with it!! Plus if there's an issue, I can't really do a 'touchup' with a 2part epoxy system.

About staining, that is BY FAR my preferred approach, but I have a slab that has been previously painted, and it's on there good! The process of getting that stuff and the ensuing preparation / work for an acid stain just seems way over the top given the current strong paint on there (and I even have the tinted acid stain on hand, I just don't think it's the way to go because of the prep - this stuff really isn't coming off w/o something heavy duty. I've hit it with a pressure washer (@3500psi with a thin degree tip, up close) and you've gotta work inch by inch, if that. Sanding by hand is completely useless, and I don't think there's any chemical approaches that'd be viable for me (w/o a wet/dry vac or anything, I have too much finished projects around the slabs, including this garage one, which puts me in a bad spot for any large scale chemical attach on this stuff.





So yeah, I really, really don't want to use this stuff. But I've been looking into how to do that floor for MONTHS (literally lol, I started at least 2 threads here on the subject), and it just seems like it's the best fit for the job.



If there's any better, general purpose floor paints or anything I'm all ears. I am painting concrete slabs but as I said, they've already got a very old green paint/coating on them. This stuff just seems to be the best in terms of price, preparation needed, and ability to touchup failure spots. The 2 part system won't allow touchups (which is a major problem given how much they seem to fail), and because of the current condition on the slabs an acid stain job would just be a million times the work and a major, major problem job for me.

At least with this stuff, I can get an extra gallon or two, mix them all up for uniformity into a 5 gal, and have it on hand and do every other month touchups when needed lol!



Any other suggestions are more than welcome, tile is the only one that seems better at this point, but the price differential is just far too much to make it worthwhile for me.



*rehabber - you said the stuff doesn't hide anything? I find that a bit surprising, I guess I was expecting *at least* more hide than a standard paint, you're saying that this epoxy stuff hides LESS than a regular wall paint?

Rehabber 11-24-2007 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyboy (Post 75942)
I know I know!!! I hate it! But my general idea is to just get quite a bit more than I need and do touchups.

The problem is that I don't have a lot of good options here unless I want to just go with tiles, which I don't.

The real, 2-part epoxy systems still have ridiculous failure rates - and I read that on contractor talk. If I'm reading that there, I've got no interest in playing with it!! Plus if there's an issue, I can't really do a 'touchup' with a 2part epoxy system.

About staining, that is BY FAR my preferred approach, but I have a slab that has been previously painted, and it's on there good! The process of getting that stuff and the ensuing preparation / work for an acid stain just seems way over the top given the current strong paint on there (and I even have the tinted acid stain on hand, I just don't think it's the way to go because of the prep - this stuff really isn't coming off w/o something heavy duty. I've hit it with a pressure washer (@3500psi with a thin degree tip, up close) and you've gotta work inch by inch, if that. Sanding by hand is completely useless, and I don't think there's any chemical approaches that'd be viable for me (w/o a wet/dry vac or anything, I have too much finished projects around the slabs, including this garage one, which puts me in a bad spot for any large scale chemical attach on this stuff.





So yeah, I really, really don't want to use this stuff. But I've been looking into how to do that floor for MONTHS (literally lol, I started at least 2 threads here on the subject), and it just seems like it's the best fit for the job.



If there's any better, general purpose floor paints or anything I'm all ears. I am painting concrete slabs but as I said, they've already got a very old green paint/coating on them. This stuff just seems to be the best in terms of price, preparation needed, and ability to touchup failure spots. The 2 part system won't allow touchups (which is a major problem given how much they seem to fail), and because of the current condition on the slabs an acid stain job would just be a million times the work and a major, major problem job for me.

At least with this stuff, I can get an extra gallon or two, mix them all up for uniformity into a 5 gal, and have it on hand and do every other month touchups when needed lol!



Any other suggestions are more than welcome, tile is the only one that seems better at this point, but the price differential is just far too much to make it worthwhile for me.



*rehabber - you said the stuff doesn't hide anything? I find that a bit surprising, I guess I was expecting *at least* more hide than a standard paint, you're saying that this epoxy stuff hides LESS than a regular wall paint?

The stuff did flow really well to a nice smooth finish hides nothing

bofusmosby 11-24-2007 09:09 PM

I have no idea what brand it was, but I went to Home Depot, and bought a can of "floor" paint to use on the front door sill, and so far, its holding up great. As far a covering, the sill had been painted white before, and I used black paint. Covered it in one coat.

joeyboy 11-24-2007 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bofusmosby (Post 75979)
I have no idea what brand it was, but I went to Home Depot, and bought a can of "floor" paint to use on the front door sill, and so far, its holding up great. As far a covering, the sill had been painted white before, and I used black paint. Covered it in one coat.

cool, good to know.

I'll be using this type of paint for:
garage floor
outdoor concrete slabs
several concrete door thresholds



If nobody else has more relevant info/tips and this thread ends here, anyone in the future reading this feel free to bump it and ask me how my work is holding up down the road :wink:

<<I'm doing spots in high sun exposure, rain/elements exposure, high traffic exposure, indoors w/ light traffic exposure, the whole gamut of slab painting, so feel free to ask how it's holding up down the road>>

Hopefully some more comments/suggestions/opinions will come in though :)

End Grain 11-24-2007 11:38 PM

Behr offers a line of custom tint concrete stains. I've used them on numerous occasions and they are excellent! It's all in the prep - thorough sweeping, water cleaning, chemical degreasing, chemical etching, thorough rinsing, priming and finally finish coating. It wears well, looks great and unlike epoxy, it's already bonded way down into the concrete. HD carries everything you'll need.

RemodelMan 11-25-2007 12:05 AM

Three to One prep time
 
Three quarters of your time/effort is in preparing the surface to be painted.
Be sure that the cement has been etched, rinsed and thoroughly dried in any of the questionable areas particularly oil deposits, soap/detergent zones, paint or other chemical spills. The better it is prepped the better the adhesion = longevity.

slickshift 11-25-2007 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyboy (Post 75942)
- and I read that on contractor talk. If I'm reading that there, I've got no interest in playing with it!!...

And yet...there's not one...not one of those coatings professionals that will touch anything with the Behr name on it...
But the guys over there that tried 2-part epoxies and failed (most fail because of improper prep), you'll take that as advice not use a two-part?
Well...if you want to choose the advice that supports your decision as gospel, and ignore the advice that doesn't support your decison, that's your prerogative

Personally, I hope it works out well for you
It seems there are (at least) some success stories with the Behr floor coatings out there
I knew there had to be some!

Good Luck

End Grain 11-25-2007 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift (Post 76060)
And yet...there's not one...not one of those coatings professionals that will touch anything with the Behr name on it...
But the guys over there that tried 2-part epoxies and failed (most fail because of improper prep), you'll take that as advice not use a two-part?
Well...if you want to choose the advice that supports your decision as gospel, and ignore the advice that doesn't support your decison, that's your prerogative

Personally, I hope it works out well for you
It seems there are (at least) some success stories with the Behr floor coatings out there
I knew there had to be some!

Good Luck

I've come across numerous epoxy-coated garage floors here in AZ and it gets up to 140 degrees in a closed garage in the summer. Most of the ones I've seen look really good BUT I think that some folks are habitual wheel turners -tire grinders - when the car is in the garage. THAT will prematurely ruin those areas on the floor in the excessive heat of AZ. And, I've seen where it has. But, I've also seen garage floors that are pristine, like glass, clean up easily and retain their color and appearance out here as well.

I agree with slickshift in that it's all in the quality and thoroughness of the prep. It's not a fast process if you want to do it right and have it last. I also agree that Behr makes some very good pro-grade products, like the concrete stains I've used and alluded to in another post. Their custom tint exterior wood stains are also excellent. Again, just my 2 cents FWIW.

joeyboy 11-25-2007 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by End Grain (Post 76011)
Behr offers a line of custom tint concrete stains. I've used them on numerous occasions and they are excellent! It's all in the prep - thorough sweeping, water cleaning, chemical degreasing, chemical etching, thorough rinsing, priming and finally finish coating. It wears well, looks great and unlike epoxy, it's already bonded way down into the concrete. HD carries everything you'll need.

If I were dealing with raw concrete, I'd be all over that, but I have a very strong paint or epoxy already covering the slab. I wish I could go this way because I have some cool (well, I presume so, I haven't cracked the can yet) sherwin williams tan stain on hand already. The amount of prep work to remove that paint would double my prep, which is already the bulk of the job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RemodelMan (Post 76016)
Three quarters of your time/effort is in preparing the surface to be painted.
Be sure that the cement has been etched, rinsed and thoroughly dried in any of the questionable areas particularly oil deposits, soap/detergent zones, paint or other chemical spills. The better it is prepped the better the adhesion = longevity.

I'm not applying to concrete though, so there's nothing to really etch - I'm applying to paint and am going to need to sand/scarify a bit for adhesion (and possibly prime).


Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift (Post 76060)
And yet...there's not one...not one of those coatings professionals that will touch anything with the Behr name on it...
But the guys over there that tried 2-part epoxies and failed (most fail because of improper prep), you'll take that as advice not use a two-part?
Well...if you want to choose the advice that supports your decision as gospel, and ignore the advice that doesn't support your decison, that's your prerogative

Personally, I hope it works out well for you
It seems there are (at least) some success stories with the Behr floor coatings out there
I knew there had to be some!

Good Luck

slick it's not like that, either you're misinterpreting me or I didn't state my case properly.

I am very aware of the ridiculously high failure rate on a 2-part epoxy kit, even amongst people who have done a few of them before.

I also know the 1-part epoxy will be of poorer quality than the 2 part.



What I meant about reading how high the failure rate was on 2-part systems is why I'm not going for that over the 1-part. If there wasn't a generic floor paint or a 1-part epoxy garage floor paint/coating, the 2-part epoxy would be my first choice over the others.


I wasn't asserting the 1-part is better. Rather that the pros outweigh the cons, to me, for the 1-part. I didn't mean that to be that 1 parts are better, I know they are not. But they offer things the 2-part does not. Easier prep (since I'm not etching), cheaper price, and by far the most important to me - ease of touch ups.

If I'm looking at a 1part and a 2part, and know that both have high failure rates, the 1part offers me something the 2part can't - the ability to just grab the bucket, do a quick prep, and touchup an area that had an issue. I can't do that the same with the 2part stuff.



I hope I wasn't trying to imply 1 part was better or anything, I'm aware it's not, but for my purposes and, once taking failure potential into account, it seems a safer bet imo.

End Grain 11-25-2007 11:35 AM

If you have a good institutional grade (not Kilz) oil base primer handy, try painting over a small and inconspicuous clean part of the epoxy-coated slab. Let it dry thoroughly. In a week or two, see if you can scrape it off easily or if it's on there for good. Try scuffing your feet on it as well. If it's bonded well, then perhaps you can get away with an oil base floor paint. Might be worth a try.

joewho 11-26-2007 02:58 PM

The problem is that each contrete scenario takes a different product. Garage floors are subject to "hot tire pick up". This means all the weight of a vehicle, with hot tires or tires that get turned will come off on the paint or pick the paint up. Simply scuffing with your feet won't tell you anything.

Garage floors are done with behr because "someone" doesn't want to fork over the money for really good, two part epoxy. This is where all the resistance comes from. So simple to go to your local pro paint store and get really good two part epoxy. Follow the directions, and you're good to go. I don't like the high cost of even behr 2pt. epoxy, but this is the clue of what you're getting into. It's not a splash and dash project.


Yeah, prep is the most important thing, but just think about all that prep work and then putting crap on it, because someone didn't want to go another 50 or 100 for good, durable, long lasting 2pt. epoxy. Painting a garage floor is a serious deal if you want it done right. There aren't any corners to cut. It either is, or it ain't.

As far as other decorative concrete, you may get by with behr products.

joeyboy 11-26-2007 07:50 PM

Joewho - you're making it sound like if I just buck up and drop some extra cash, get the 2 part, and 'do it right', I'll be set.

I want the 2 part stuff, I like it a MILLION times better, I've already said that. The problem is that, even with good brand 2 part epoxies, they still have obscene failure rates!!!! That's the point I'm trying so hard to impress here and I don't think it's coming across right.

I want the look of the 2 part stuff, I want the flakes in the finish lol.

The problem is not one of cash, it's one of convenience. For me to do a 2 part and hope, pray, that my job happens to be the rare one that surpasses a 1 or 2 year window before it starts coming up, just seems foolish.

Whereas with this 1 part stuff, I already know and expect it will have failure spots, but the beauty is that I just get a few extra gallons, and do touchups as necessary - it's not the same as a 2 part in that respect and that's why I'm doing this.

2 parts and 1 parts have ridiculous failure rates. I've heard that many companies DO NOT even do the 2 part epoxy stuff anymore for customers because of the high failure rate. So, even if I do my best, I'm not going to fool myself to thinking I'm close to the level of experience as a professional. I have to accept there's a good chance of failure on any of these systems except tile, and the cost for tile is pointless for my garage.

So, knowing there's a high rate of failure, it seems I'll have a better looking garage by just doign occasional touchups with my 1 part approach, like I'm professing here, as opposed to a 2part approach, where in a year I have big failure spots all over and cannot do anything about it, deal with it, and finally just do the whole floor again. That just seems pointless and way more of a headache than quickly doing a clean/paint every few months on the high traffic areas with this 1 part stuff.




I feel like people are highly disagreeing with my approach and, in all honesty, I just don't understand your reasons why. This isn't a dollars thing (well, the tiles are more than I want to spend, but as far as paint/coatings it's not about the dollars). I can get the kit for a 2 part for my 1 car garage for very cheap (relatively speaking of course). I'm not trying to go cheap and save some cash here, I'm thinking long term. I know both systems will have high failure rates. However, a failure on a 1part, where I still have a gallon on hand, means a quick touchup. A failure on a 2 part means, basically, deal with the failure until you're fed up and decide to redo the entire thing.



Am I missing something? In my head this seems like, by far, the most logical approach for me. I'm not doing this to save cash or anything, it's just that this seems a smarter approach in the long run. If someone who is disagreeing with me in this thread could provide a more thorough explanation of why you feel my approach isn't the best I'd love to hear it, because I'm new at this stuff and want my jobs to come out as good as I can get them too, but no matter how I think of this the 1part with touchups as needed seems to be the best solution available for me.


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