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Old 05-09-2012, 09:36 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by dougp23 View Post
There is no doubt that the economy isn't great, but many employers are saying the people that show up are lacking the necessary skills they need.
Why do employers thing that there are people just standing around that can do the jobs they want with little to no training? My first job out of college put me through 3 months of training to do things "their way" before I ever got to do the job.

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Old 05-09-2012, 09:50 AM   #32
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Employers are probably tired of people coming to them and getting trained then leaving. It costs money and time to train someone and then they leave for somewhere else taking all that training with them. Now you have to train a new person.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:40 AM   #33
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That's always a threat, which is why you need to pay/treat employees well enough that you don't lose them (or pay well enough to poach employees from your competitors). Many employers are in the same boat as the college students we are discussing: they want the best for next to nothing.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:47 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by hyunelan2 View Post
Why do employers thing that there are people just standing around that can do the jobs they want with little to no training? My first job out of college put me through 3 months of training to do things "their way" before I ever got to do the job.
Excellent point.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:50 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by hyunelan2 View Post
That's always a threat, which is why you need to pay/treat employees well enough that you don't lose them (or pay well enough to poach employees from your competitors). Many employers are in the same boat as the college students we are discussing: they want the best for next to nothing.
You see a lot of this on job postings:

WANTED WEBSITE DESIGNER

Must have solid knowledge of PHP, Perl, .Net, C#, Java, HTML, XHTML. Solid understanding and working experience with Oracle, PostgreSQL, MySQL, Microsoft SQL Server, and Exchange. Ability to setup, troubleshoot, and maintain Macintosh, Linux, Windows Vista, XP, and Windows Server 2003 and 2008. Overtime and off hours work will be expected. Salary starts at $15 an hour.

I mean, give me a break! Just someone with PHP experience, the first thing in the list, would be worth $25 an hour!
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:03 PM   #36
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You know, when I was in school I didn't know for sure what I wanted to study or do when I done. Fortunately I was in a fairly exploratory environment that did not demand declaration of a major and minor on entrance. My high school counselor was so worthless my parents refused to even let me talk to him for my sophomore year on.

Some years back now, when I wanted a career change, I put myself through a barrage of the strangest tests you can ever imagine with one of the top industrial psychology firms in the country. They develop and score tests from all over. There were some aptitude things like dominate SAT/ACT and many personality index tests. But then I was asked all kinds of questions and even made to draw things. The process was painless because I had nothing to prove and knew the guys to the point they took me to lunch. They said I completed tests in record time so they kept giving me more. Not necessarily a good thing as it turned out.

At the end, they sat down with me and went over the results. They compared my tests to a giant statistical pool and showed me exactly where I fit with others ranging from florists to senior military officers and what I would have to go through to achieve different careers. I thought I was a great manager of people but it turns out only of those with similar aspiration and conviction. I could never make the hard decisions of a CEO or US President---even if well staffed.

I think the testing, evaluation and printed report cost me $300. It may be more now. But over the years since? And I know "kids" entering school are test barraged and anxious but why not put them through ones like I took that were actually fun? I paid my own way and certainly did not spend $40K a year but I realize my educational experience was beyond unique. With the test results in hand though I wonder if I would have explored differently?

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Old 05-09-2012, 07:46 PM   #37
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One doesnt have to read a lot or listen often to the moanings of parents, to know that our populace is very disastisfied with the education our youths are getting from public schools. ...
I may be wrong in my opinion here but after 60 years of walking around on this earth I have noticed something. ..

Not all people are meant to go to college. So, how many are going to college because of peer/parental pressure and this helps make their "career" choice a mistake ?

I know our society has come leaps and bounds from when I was kid as far as what they are teaching kids now. I know these youngsters now are sharper than us baby boomers were in the 50/60's. That being said, I still believe some of the OLD ways of handling school kids questions about what they should "do" for a living when they grow up, worked....

When I was in the eighth grade in 1965, our principal had a testing agency come to our school. Every child in my class was given a battery of tests( I forget the names of them) but they tested scholastic, reading comprehension, manual dexterity,mechanical ability and general knowledge. ...

This test was done so the child could be told by the testing counselor whether they would be better suited to take the academic courses in high school in preparation for college( Algebra, trigonometry,chemistry, physics,french,social studies, etc) OR....

The child would be better suited to take the general courses in high school which consisted of Math, english, biology, geography, etc, as they were not mentally suited to go to college and would probaly be better off in a skilled trades/blue collar job...

I know, the parents of today would go ballistic if these tests were given to their 8 th grader nowadays. But is our educational systems being fair and honest to the child, and doing the child justice when in fact they may not be academically/scholastically great. , but may have the potential to be a mechanical wizard and really end up in a job that they love doing ?

The test worked for me as the counselor said I scored lower on the scholastic tests yet had a high manual dexterity skill score and even higher mechanical aptitude. So he told me to go to a trade school. So I did, and I loved every day of going to the electrical trade school. I am not well off, but have earned a decent living and have never been out of work over two weeks in 42 years.

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Old 05-17-2012, 09:20 PM   #38
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This is true with all the technology we have today. Most kids are not developing the social skills necessary to get a job right out of college. This is something they should teach in college and they still have to remember that they have to work their way up in a job even with a degree. Now they will be able to move up quicker with a degree than without but many kids don't want to start at the bottom. Life is hard but if you work harder you'll get ahead.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:06 PM   #39
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If they don't mind physical labor, there are several trades that can pay $60,000 a year after a few years. My experience has been that most young people are afraid of work.
The average starting wage in my area is about $8.50 an hour. Five years ago I was paying $15 and had trouble finding help.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:37 PM   #40
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I think kids nowadays need to lower expectations and raise the bar on reality a little. Just because you have a degree in whatever does not mean you are going to make what the boss makes. Its called "pay your dues"....until you put in the time and have the experience to back it up, get used to being the b!tch at work.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:45 PM   #41
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Right. The tired mantra that "kids these days are lazy" has been debunked. In the early 70's I heard over and over from the crack immigrant crew of house painters (by which I was trained) that "these days kids are lazy- thats the problem". Now, again, in 2012 we still hear the tired line of placing blame.

Yous are right that some kids are lazy today, but there were lazy kids during the Johnson administration too!!

The jobs now in the usa are in IT, software, elec engineering, nursing, etc. Also, severe shortage of available workers for precision machining, a stigmatized occupation from 2 decades ago. Too many college students for pharmacy, dentistry, law. Flooded careers.

China has taken the wind out of the sail for the USA. In 1970, USA was the largest economy by far- now, within 2-4 yrs, China will surpass us- already China is the biggest producer of garbage- a true indicator of wealth/economic vitality.....LOL
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:01 PM   #42
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It's been a while since I roamed these forums. Moving from MS to WV left me with a smaller garage with little light, and even fewer receptacles (esp in the 220 range). So my DIY time has dwindled or completely disappeared (except for my new hobby - AR-15's ). I read through several posts and I think there are a couple thoughts missing. The college grads think that they can go from Bachelor's to CEO because their life experience and mentoring is MTV's Real Life (or whatever it's called). Bunch of lazy me-me 20 year-olds thinking about who they can sleep with next and how it will improve their image (I think it might be called "street cred" now). Most parents are either two busy with their careers or they want to be "friends" with their kids that the motivation and steering that teenagers need is no longer there. The "friends" thing is so disappointing. I worked at McD's when I was 13 - Why not? It wasn't a career move, but it put cash in my pocket and I tried reasonably hard, meaning that I recognized it was a responsibility, but I wasn't trying to impress anyone - just steady work for pay. ha dot start somewhere. What do you get at McD's anymore? Flippant attitude? Rolling eyes?

What do teachers teach anymore? Look to government? Blame someone else? Unbelievable.

Before college there were all sorts of jobs for me, the toughest being working chicken farms at night, loading them on a truck for slaughter. It was grueling and it typically took 4 hours to load one truck (tractor trailer). It stunk and depending on the farmer, we would load at 10:00 PM, 2:00 AM or 4:00 AM. the pay was actually quite good around $20/hr in 1987, but like I said it was grueling (along the lines of Deadliest Catch). It was an experience and that sort of thing is good for a young man - but not anymore.

Young people think they're on fire, and while this is not a new thing, I believe the pervasiveness of that attitude is. They live vicariously through movies and TV, computer games, and Facebook. Accomplishment is something that Grandpa talked about, but so are horse-drawn carriages.

Getting back to McD's, who's usually working there? Mexicans and those from South America. Don't you find it amazing that a Mexican is happy to take your order and make minimum wage while "indigenous" McD's worker acts like you're a pester?

What about the parents - even the concerned parents? more often than not, a blue collar dad will tell his kid "you're going to college, so that you don't have to do this for a living". And it's happened. Want an ironworker, landscaper, or concrete finisher? 90% will be Mexican...the Americans are off in college chasing education.

The other factor is cheap labor. I bought a 50" plasma a year or two ago because the price was great - $900. If that TV were assembled in this country, it would have cost a few thousand. So, if you want to make TV's, be prepared to earn Chinese wages. If you rail against Chinese imports, be prepared to pay US worker prices in the products that you buy.

Then there's the stock market, which is now full of lurking day-don't-know-crap-about-stocks-traders. The value of a company and the evaluation of the stock is overshadowed by the notion that someone might buy at a high price, leaving an opportunity to sell a ta high price. Facebook just went public and it's a disaster for the investors. I believe the P/E was around $110, meaning that a stock cost $110 and was expected to generate $1 in a year's time. How could that possibly be a good investment? Well, maybe, FB has a secret weapon and a smart investor know this....I doubt it. Remember, FB is alive (mostly) because of the kids that watch MTV. Ever try FB? I did - Holy $hit - it was terrible. What interesting updates from influential people...."just stubbed my toe - going to dr tomorrow"...."sitin back drinking a Bud and listening to Duke Ellington" Who give a $hit? Ah, whatever, kids say it's a great place to make a buck "if you know what you're doing" - their quote, not mine.

We'll see, but I'm not expecting a change in attitude before things hit rock-desperate-(*$%#&*-bottom.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:46 PM   #43
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Like I said, I have tried to hire young men and they don't want a job if it means getting dirty. I paid far more than most of the jobs in this area plus the chance to learn a trade and finally gave up. I just scaled back to what I could do by myself. Also smoking is a no no on the job and so are raggedy clothes.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:11 PM   #44
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^^I would love to have someone take me under their wing to learn a trade^^ The way i look at it its either that or college, me personally i would rather get my hands dirty but thats just me....i come from a family of blue-collars.

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Old 05-24-2012, 07:24 PM   #45
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A lot of people get high end degrees and expect to get a super high end job right out of school. Their degrees are useless for the lower end jobs that actually require you to do real work. A job building a house requires tradesmen skill, a job being some head honcho at construction company requires the management skill and experience, two different things.

People need to learn to go towards jobs that are realistic to get as a newbie to the company, and should go to school for that. Then from there they can move up through experience if they want to be a manager or some other higher end position.

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