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AGWhitehouse 09-27-2012 04:27 PM

Why do we still build like old times?
 
In a world of bustling technologies, HUGE advances in construction knowledge and skyrocketing energy prices, why does everyone still build without regarding for thermal/moisture efficiencies? I don't consider cost to be an appropriate point since construction+operational costs over a 15-20 year period for a poorly insulated envelope usually outweigh that of a well insulated envelope....so why the backwards building approach?

joecaption 09-27-2012 05:52 PM

Lack of education in what's avalible and differant ways of doing it would be my guess.
Human nature to want to do things in your comfort zone, why take the time to learn a new way of doing it?
Not disageeing with you, just the way it is.

bballallan 09-29-2012 10:12 AM

Once people are stuck in there own ways, they don't want to change. Even if it could benefit for the better...

Mort 09-29-2012 11:51 AM

I thought I heard that we were making such advancements, and then studies showed that we weren't moving enough air so it was unhealthy.

canadaclub 10-08-2012 02:51 PM

I remember when compression fittings came out...didn't trust it, now I use them whenever possible. I hated the concept of PEX, now I use it 90% of the time. I couldn't believe Shark-Bites work as well as they do...you get the idea:laughing:
bb is right...its all in what you are comfortable with.

The other thought is that a lot of renovations today are still being performed by "old timers" like myself (people like to hire tradesmen with experience). Wait until the next generation of trades people establish themselves, and you will see a noticeable change. I encourage my daughter to seek a career in the trades simply because there are relatively few changes in basic construction.

CC

GBrackins 10-19-2012 05:02 PM

the big issue I have experienced is people only look at the dollars they spend today, not the ones they will spend in the future. they'd rather hire "Fly-By-Night Builders" than a quality builder because they will save a few "bucks" which makes them a "smart shopper!"

I can easily sale them on thermal improvements and get them to understand in the long run they will save money. in the end they'd rather have granite counter tops than a quality envelope. After all their neighbors can see the granite, not their insulation. They will spend money on what they see, not what is hidden.

oh'mike 10-19-2012 06:52 PM

You nailed it---

Well said.

shazapple 10-19-2012 07:09 PM

I think the early versions of technologies have taught people to stick to their old ways. Polybutylene, phenolic foam, Stab-lok breakers, asbestos to name a few. Of course, from those better technologies have emerged.

gregzoll 10-19-2012 07:26 PM

Costs. It costs more to do it right the first time, than find every corner they can cut, to get the job done. Besides it always ends up over schedule & over budget for most.

AGWhitehouse 10-19-2012 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBrackins (Post 1034116)
the big issue I have experienced is people only look at the dollars they spend today, not the ones they will spend in the future. they'd rather hire "Fly-By-Night Builders" than a quality builder because they will save a few "bucks" which makes them a "smart shopper!"

This analysis goes well beyond the construction industry and has come to encapsulate all of America. Example: Walmart and it's "cheap, cheap, cheap" business model is proliferating from this "motto" and is slowly eroding our economy.

oh'mike 10-19-2012 07:36 PM

25 years ago I built my house as energy efficient as I could----2x6 walls---1 inch foam board and Andersons best windows.

That move has saved me a ton of money in the last 25 years---best 'extra' that I could have ordered---

2400 square foot---a single wood stove heats the entire house very nicely----the Hydronic heating system serves as a back up---sure helps stretch the cash when times are tough---heating bill for last January--February and March was $400 total for all three months.

AGWhitehouse 10-19-2012 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 1034199)
heating bill for last January--February and March was $400 total for all three months.

:eek::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:: notworthy:

funfool 10-20-2012 01:34 PM

We have a local builder here that builds a decent energy efficient home.
I hear his adds on the radio all the time, boast a incredibly cheap annual operating cost for his green built homes. He has some base model homes that are in line with other new comparable homes, price wise. So really not that more expensive to build.
Really is just knowledge and using different techniques during construction.

Here is a short video he made of the construction process, of course he is a wind bag and trying to sale his product, some may like to watch it to see what techniques he uses, wide insulated foundation, 2x8 framing, dropped ceilings and such.
Some of it I incorporate into my remodelling.
One trick I use is a 2x4 exterior wall, then a second 2x4 wall 12" in. You can triple the r value, get a real nice fat wall that is noticeable in door ways and windows, archways etc.
http://paulallenhomes.net/gallery-2/...ion-processes/

imautoparts 10-20-2012 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGWhitehouse (Post 1018569)
In a world of bustling technologies, HUGE advances in construction knowledge and skyrocketing energy prices, why does everyone still build without regarding for thermal/moisture efficiencies? I don't consider cost to be an appropriate point since construction+operational costs over a 15-20 year period for a poorly insulated envelope usually outweigh that of a well insulated envelope....so why the backwards building approach?


I've often wondered the same thing. My Dad was part of National Homes, who used new technologies and factory-built walls to put up millions of houses in the 50s and early 60s, yet nowadays for anything but the cheapie apartment market you don't see any of those manufacturing efficiencies applied to new homes.

It seems the real gains have been in the environmental and ease-of-application areas for materials we use nowadays. No more lead paint and thank heavens for wallboard v plaster and lath, for examples.

I do think the time is ripe for a brand new set of ideas - I'm enthusiastic about the new modular container-based home types becoming popular in big cities and in Europe. Some young person is probably watching a bunch of carpenters framing a house right now and thinking, "There has GOT to be a better way!"

ddawg16 10-20-2012 02:04 PM

Lets use the Chevy Volt as an example.....in the long term it can save a lot of money.....but the upfront cost is high....

Same with building.....sticker shock.....

I'm doing my own work on a 2-story addition....have learned a ton over the past year....after awhile you start to see the payback cost on certain items......

Like most things....at the end of the day it comes down to $$$$$


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