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Old 08-27-2009, 03:10 PM   #31
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This is exactly the kind of "catch phrases" and rhetoric that is always spewed out by the opposition.
And why are these catch phrases and rhetoric still being spewed out by the liberal media?

Because they are well aware that most Americans accept their b.s. as fact. They know that most Americans will not take the time or put the effort into researching and learning the facts for themselves.

They think we're all a bunch of morons who can't think for ourselves or do our own research! But, thankfully they pushed their luck a little too far this time. Americans are paying attention now. We're doing what should have been done a very long time ago. The town hall meetings and tea parties are a good example of that.

And how does the liberal media handle it? Just like they always do. They start name-calling. "Bible thumpers", "rednecks", "gun toters", etc. I guess they think that if they call outspoken American taxpayers a bunch of goofy-@$$ names, their viewers will look down on those people who CAN see the big picture.

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Quit worrying about losing American jobs, start worrying about the continuing loss of American lives.
For years since NAFTA passed, our government hasn't worried about losing American jobs. They've encouraged it by raising taxes to the point where major companies don't want to stay here. You know, those big, horrible, evil, rich, uncaring companies that used to provide jobs for us so we could pay our bills and feed our children. We've encouraged those companies to leave the country and what happened? Massive unemployment. Gee, who would have ever guessed that would happen?

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Quit worrying about losing American jobs, start worrying about the continuing loss of American lives. It's sad that so many people would rather to continue letting men, women and children live under overpasses and eat out of dumpsters.
The two go hand-in-hand. The more jobs that are lost, the more people lose their homes/apartments. Which leads to more families that are homeless. And, btw, NOBODY wants families to be homeless and live under bridges.

The way I see it, if the govt. cared enough about homeless people, they would have used BILLIONS of dollars helping them instead of giving people (who already had cars and a place to sleep at night) a $4,500 discount on a car.

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Old 08-27-2009, 03:17 PM   #32
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The way I see it, if the govt. cared enough about homeless people, they would have used BILLIONS of dollars helping them instead of giving people (who already had cars and a place to sleep at night) a $4,500 discount on a car.

they couldn't do this because the right would have used it as another example of how our President is a Marxists, and instead of critizing "cash For Clunkers" they would have had a field day calling it "Cash for Crackheads", "Dough for Deriliects" or "GreenBacks for WetBacks"
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:28 PM   #33
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And, btw, NOBODY wants families to be homeless and live under bridges.
.
I know nobody wants to see it, the problem is nobody really wants to do anything about it either. When was the last time you thought" instead of buying that new plasma tv that is 6 inches bigger than the one i bought three years ago, I'm going to go find a needy family and hand them three grand so they can sleep indoors for a few months". I'll guess : NEVER
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:28 PM   #34
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I think you are putting to much stock into the far left statist rhetoric and union non-sense. There is no guaranty that you will prosper or even make it in this world. The difference between this country and others is that we are all equal here and our birth lines do not dictate how successful we can be. Do you need to be reminded our country is a capitalist country. Companies take jobs off shores when they can not make enough money to cover their expenses and earn a return on their investment. The return is called profit. The greater the risk undertaken the greater the return.

I notice you like to clip sections of statements and arguments out when you have no well founded response to the entire argument. This is the same approach taken by the media and politicians that you seem to have such disdain for. You better worry about losing American jobs, yours may be next.

In case you are unaware there is no perfect world, there is no utopia. It may not be fair, but life is not fair. I would hope that by now you have come to terms with that. Some people are going to make it in this world some people are not. This health care plan is not going to house, cloth, and feed the people you make reference to. It is only going to give them mediocre health insurance and potentially take jobs from them.

I think you are putting to much stock into the far left statist rhetoric and union non-sense.
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:34 PM   #35
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I suppose Mr. Chips you believe in income redistribution as well. They have a word for the kind of social climate you are leaning towards. I'll bet you know the one I'm thinking about. It doesn't work.
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:36 PM   #36
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This health care plan is not going to house, cloth, and feed the people you make reference to. It is only going to give them mediocre health insurance and potentially take jobs from them.
You know, you have completely turned me around on this. You're right, why bother to give them anything since they are screwed anyway!!
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:44 PM   #37
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we should be ashamed to have so much, while there are people in our own towns that have so little. You guys are always preaching "the big picture", and somehow keep forgetting that the actual big picture is much bigger than just you
No. We should not be 'ashamed to have so much'. We work hard for what we have. We donate to charities. We help family members through tough times. Americans do a lot for each other.

Besides, what have we heard for years now. "Go to college, get a good education so you can get a good-paying job". "Save for your kids college education". Etc.

Yet the people who actually do finish college and earn good money are supposed to be ashamed of themselves? I don't get it.

Oh, wait. Yes I do. I get it. Go to college and pay tuition, which as of last year has gone up 439% since 1982. Yes, 439%. Look at the cost of college text books. Where is this money going? To support the liberal professors who hate this country and are teaching our kids to hate this country. Have you ever questioned why THEY have such high incomes? Probably not. Because somehow it's okay for liberals to earn very high wages, but not the common man. We never hear, 'shame on them for being rich', but 'shame on us for having a few extra things that we want but don't need'.

I'm not rich. If I was, I'd be paying someone else to do all the repairs and upkeep on this house. Plus, it would be getting done all at once, not when I've saved enough money to do each individual project.

But do I look at those who have more than me and think they're bad? Am I jealous of them? NO! If I really want what they have, I'll work a little harder for it. I'm not expecting the government to do it for me either.
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:45 PM   #38
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I notice you like to clip sections of statements and arguments out when you have no well founded response to the entire argument..

i do this when an entire post really revolves around a single sentance or sentances. It also avoids confusion as I will sometimes respond to posts that may not be the one that will be directly above my response. If someone writes two papragraphs about the "potential" loss of American jobs, I quote the one sentance were they say "illegal immigrants will rape your wives and take your jobs" since that seems to be the main point the author was trying to make
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:51 PM   #39
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"illegal immigrants will rape your wives and take your jobs" since that seems to be the main point the author was trying to make
Do you mean the OP made this point?

DangerMouse never said anything like that!

I must be misunderstanding what you are saying.
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:51 PM   #40
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Look at the cost of college text books. Where is this money going? To support the liberal professors who hate this country and are teaching our kids to hate this country. Have you ever questioned why THEY have such high incomes? Probably not..

the hits just keep on coming.....

the average college professor makes less than $75,000 a year. This might sound like a fortune if you live under the over pass, but i'm not sure i'd call it rich..

from the above linked page :Salaries varied widely by field and rank ranging from $45,927 for an assistant professor in theology to $136,634 for a full professor in "Legal Professions and Studies. As a college student, I'm sure you have a good idea of how much one needs to spend on their education to get a job like a full professor in legal studies. I image you have to earn $136,000 for a couple years before you see any return on investment


and if professors all hate america and all colleges are liberal, why are their so many conservatives...

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good story

Last edited by Mr Chips; 08-27-2009 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:59 PM   #41
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Yeah, I was generalizing. They're not ALL that way. Sorry about that.

There is one at our local community college who teaches history and the Constitution as it is meant to be taught.

I'm sure there are plenty like him.
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Old 08-27-2009, 05:01 PM   #42
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You go, Mr Chips!!

The simple fact is the US spends far more on health care than any other industrialized country, and the outcomes are no better than anywhere else. People don't live as long and survival stats for major medical conditions are on par with or inferior to those places.

One way to cut costs is to not rely on ERs to treat millions of uninsured people. They are crazy expensive compared to preventative care undertaken *before* their health problem becomes acute. And when people can't pay their massive, unanticipated ER bills, it falls to the taxpayers. If those people had publicly-funded health insurance, they'd get the routine preventative care they need and be far less likely to end up in the ER. The taxpayers would save money in the end. That's how it works in Britain, Canada and elsewhere. (Not to say those systems are perfect, but people get the preventative care they need.) That's why we need a public option. We already have it for people over 65, and their health needs are much *more* expensive than for younger people.

Another huge way to cut costs is not to pay so much for drugs. They cost US consumers far more than they do in other countries. Why? Because the federal government can't bulk-buy or otherwise use its market power to negotiate the prices down the way other national governments do. (On this point it seems Obama is being soft with the pharma companies.)

Yes, under capitalism, you prosper according to how hard you work yadda yadda, but a good society recognizes that even so, some people suffer disadvantages through no fault of their own. The poor kid of illiterate parents can't get a fair shake in the marketplace. That's why we have public education. The town whose only factory closes because of some boardroom decision in Tokyo is going to end up with a lot of hard-working people out of work. That's why we have public unemployment insurance. A lightning strike can burn a house down. That's why we have public fire departments. And some people are going to get sick and injured and wind up with huge medical expenses through no fault of their own -- because of an accident, or a genetic defect, or cancer strikes them at random, or their parents can't afford to get them regular checkups. This is why we need public health insurance. In all those other cases, the taxpayers collectively provide the safety net because they know someday it could be them. Why not in the case of bad health?

It's stupid that people are afraid to change jobs because they'll lose their health insurance. That stifles innovation and entrepreneurship. People get bound to big impersonal corporations instead of striking off on their own, with public health care as a safety net.

Yeah, it costs (though see above for some of ways we might save). Yeah, the deficit is huge. You know what? We spend more on defense than like the next six countries combined -- and half of them are our allies. Cut it back to the next two countries and you could pay for public health care, easy.

I'm not saying any of the particular plans being floated now are perfect. In fact some of them could turn out to be quite bad -- e.g. mandate with no public option. But that's the general shape of things as I see it.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:00 PM   #43
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You go, Mr Chips!!

The simple fact is the US spends far more on health care than any other industrialized country, and the outcomes are no better than anywhere else. People don't live as long and survival stats for major medical conditions are on par with or inferior to those places.

One way to cut costs is to not rely on ERs to treat millions of uninsured people. They are crazy expensive compared to preventative care undertaken *before* their health problem becomes acute. And when people can't pay their massive, unanticipated ER bills, it falls to the taxpayers. If those people had publicly-funded health insurance, they'd get the routine preventative care they need and be far less likely to end up in the ER. The taxpayers would save money in the end. That's how it works in Britain, Canada and elsewhere. (Not to say those systems are perfect, but people get the preventative care they need.) That's why we need a public option. We already have it for people over 65, and their health needs are much *more* expensive than for younger people.

Another huge way to cut costs is not to pay so much for drugs. They cost US consumers far more than they do in other countries. Why? Because the federal government can't bulk-buy or otherwise use its market power to negotiate the prices down the way other national governments do. (On this point it seems Obama is being soft with the pharma companies.)

Yes, under capitalism, you prosper according to how hard you work yadda yadda, but a good society recognizes that even so, some people suffer disadvantages through no fault of their own. The poor kid of illiterate parents can't get a fair shake in the marketplace. That's why we have public education. The town whose only factory closes because of some boardroom decision in Tokyo is going to end up with a lot of hard-working people out of work. That's why we have public unemployment insurance. A lightning strike can burn a house down. That's why we have public fire departments. And some people are going to get sick and injured and wind up with huge medical expenses through no fault of their own -- because of an accident, or a genetic defect, or cancer strikes them at random, or their parents can't afford to get them regular checkups. This is why we need public health insurance. In all those other cases, the taxpayers collectively provide the safety net because they know someday it could be them. Why not in the case of bad health?

It's stupid that people are afraid to change jobs because they'll lose their health insurance. That stifles innovation and entrepreneurship. People get bound to big impersonal corporations instead of striking off on their own, with public health care as a safety net.

Yeah, it costs (though see above for some of ways we might save). Yeah, the deficit is huge. You know what? We spend more on defense than like the next six countries combined -- and half of them are our allies. Cut it back to the next two countries and you could pay for public health care, easy.

I'm not saying any of the particular plans being floated now are perfect. In fact some of them could turn out to be quite bad -- e.g. mandate with no public option. But that's the general shape of things as I see it.

All I've got to say is KMA!!! I spent the best 14 years of my life (from 18 - 32) defending MY country in the military and fortunately never had to pay the ultimate price for YOUR freedom, liberty, or right to speak your mind, yet here I am with no health insurance or benefits from the VA. I'm not complaining about my lot, it is what I have made of it, but DON'T tell me that it is my responsibilty to take care of others that have entered this country illegally when all they have done is take jobs from other Americans or just because they have been able to enter the system.
It must be nice to be able to sit upon that high horse and dictate to others that they should give 'unto to others'. When it comes to defending democracy in other countries, I gladly feel that is money well spent. I, as everyone that reads this will die eventually, but if we spend an extra dollar or two or more to help liberate another is that not a better dollar spent than proliferating the spending on someone that does not even take the time to enter this country legally and earn a legal dollar and contribute (taxes) to the helping of others that will also eventually be in need?
It is not right that ANYONE that is not a legal resident of the US has more benefits than those that have lived and worked here all of their lives... regardless of whether or not they served this country.
Do we have the obligation to help others lesser than ourselves? Yes. And often that is in the form of military support. To at least give them the ability to hold elections and choose their own destiny.
Within our own borders, charity DOES begin at home. Let's at least provide for our own brothers and sisters before we have to sacrifice our own well-being to provide for those who have yet to contribute to this society.
Sure, it is easy to look the other way when you get off the interstate and see the homeless guy with his sign asking for help. BUT, at least he is out there, and not just expecting that because he IS there, he deserves your contribution.
I respect your opinion, and this is mine.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:02 PM   #44
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Keep it Civil, no insults or this thread will be closed
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:16 PM   #45
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Thank you for your service to our country Wrangler!

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The simple fact is the US spends far more on health care than any other industrialized country, and the outcomes are no better than anywhere else. People don't live as long and survival stats for major medical conditions are on par with or inferior to those places.
Is that why people come HERE from other countries for medical care?

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I'm not saying any of the particular plans being floated now are perfect. In fact some of them could turn out to be quite bad -- e.g. mandate with no public option. But that's the general shape of things as I see it.
So that's it? The crud they're trying to force on us isn't very good, but that's the general shape of things. Do you mean that even though it's no good we should just sit back and let it happen?

I think our founding fathers are turning over in their graves.

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