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Old 08-27-2009, 10:23 AM   #16
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Where will they get the money?


They are not lowering the actual amounts of social security benefits paid they just aren't giving a cost of living increase. This is resulting in a lower amount collected by the recipient because medicare and medicaid are subtracted out of the amount before the check is issued to the recipient. The cost of medicare and medicaid are increasing so the result is less funds distributed to the recipient.

They justify this by indicating the cost of living has not gone up this year rather it has gone down due to the recession.

For those who think government health care will be a great thing, remember that if it passes when the hospital tells you based on your age you don't qualify for whatever life saving procedure you need. All you have to do is look at other countries who have it to see that it does not work. The feds don't have the money to pay for it either way. The health care package would cost approximately $32,000 per family and the government can only afford $14,000 per family (I don't understand this figure as we have a multi trillion dollar deficit and Bush is not responsible for all of it so don't bother going there). The government has not successfully run any other similar social programs why one would think this will be any different I have no clue.

All that aside the 10th amendment says the only powers granted to the federal government are those of the Constitution and the amendments. All other powers are granted to the people and the states (I'm paraphrasing people so don't get to caught up on the wording). Can someone tell me where in the constitution the government is granted the power to form a tax payer sponsored government insurance policy to act in direct competition of private industry (you know, operate at a loss on the tax payer dime) and dictate to the people of the country that they must use this system if anything about their current insurance changes (co-payment, payment date, you change which tier you want, etc.).

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Old 08-27-2009, 11:27 AM   #17
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Where will they get the money?


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I have no proof that the government is capable of running anything successfully. That is why I don't trust them with medical care.

You also have no proof that they are not capable of running health care, which is what makes statements like this simply foolish. If you really think that our goverment is so bad, and "is (not) capable of running anything successfully" why not dust off your passport and go somewhere better? I am so sick of unproductive, immature, inflamatory statements like these.

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We need to help our citizens who are poor, disabled or elderly. We especially need to do more for our vets. IMO they should have better medical benefits than our millionaire government officials. Who, by the way, are keeping the great insurance they have. If the proposed bill is so great, why aren't they going to be using it?
We DO agree that we need to help these groups, and in my mind continuing to do nothing is the worse possible option. Our current system benefits one group and one group only, and that's the insurance companies

The reason Government officials, and anybody else for that matter, will be allowed to keep their current insurance is the whole point of the plan. As I understand it, nobody will be forced to choose a public option, hence the term "option". The idea is not to make you or your Congressman switch, but to provide access to people that simply can't afford, or have no access to insurance because of a pre-existing condition

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Old 08-27-2009, 11:31 AM   #18
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Where will they get the money?


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For those who think government health care will be a great thing, remember that if it passes when the hospital tells you based on your age you don't qualify for whatever life saving procedure you need..
This is such a bogus arguement!! Insurance companies do this 24 hours a day, 7 days a week already. Many of them do something far worse, they wait until you had the procedure, and then tell you you have to pay for it out of pocket, since they have decided not to cover it. Now on top of trying to recover from a life threatening illness, you are forced to deal with medical bills that are probably well into six figures if it really was a "life saving procedure"

wake up people, Just because Glenn Beck and Bill O'Rieley say it's true, doesn't mean it is

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Old 08-27-2009, 11:47 AM   #19
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Where will they get the money?


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Our government runs Social Security- It's a MESS! Our government runs the Postal Service- It's a MESS! Show me anything the government runs well. And we want to let them run another 15% of our economy?
Social Security is a mess because of the cascading reprecutions of a post war baby boom. It's certainly easy ( and for some people fun) to say what a mess it is, but there are millions of seniors in this country who would have NOTHING without it.

The postal service has had it's share of problems as well, mainly due to the advent and increasing popularity of the internet, something that has impacted "brick and mortar" businesses of just about every shape. Just like every other business, they are doing there best to adapt, and given the enorimity and complexity of the US Postal Service, I think they have been doing a pretty good job. I can send a package priority mail for $5 and get it from one side of the country to the other in about 4 days, that's pretty dam inpressive in my book
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:53 AM   #20
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Where will they get the money?


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The idea is not to make you or your Congressman switch, but to provide access to people that simply can't afford, or have no access to insurance because of a pre-existing condition
Who is paying these premiums?
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:01 PM   #21
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Who is paying these premiums?
The same people that pay for EVERYTHING our goverment does!!

If you are so against this, there is an easy solution. Run for public office, get elected, set an example by passing on all the perks of your position, and do something to make real change, rather than spending time sitting anonomisly at your keyboard talking about how stupid and inept YOUR goverment is
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:07 PM   #22
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The same people that pay for EVERYTHING our goverment does!!
How does the government get its money?
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:15 PM   #23
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The same people that pay for EVERYTHING our goverment does!!
The tax payers (we the people) do. If this bill is so great then how come it specifically says that elected officials get to keep their current tax payer provided health insurance plans and do not have to switch to the federal run health care plan. Seems to me they don't beleive it will be run well either or they would lead by example.

Not everybody wants to be a career politician. The power we have is to voice our opinion (You know that whole freedom of speech thing) to our elected officials and countrymen. The other power we all have is to vote them out of office when they don't do what the majority of the country wants. I beleive the last poll I saw said around 83% of the country are against this bill.

Nobody is saying private insurance is perfect and changes don't need to be made. However currently you would still most likely get better care from from a private insurance company then any government run plan. If you are really interested in controlling health care costs you can start by demanding our immigration laws be enforced. That would cut down a lot of the costs that hospitals either must write off or pass on to those with insurance there by increasing the cost of premiums.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:31 PM   #24
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Where will they get the money?


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I beleive the last poll I saw said around 83% of the country are against this bill.
I think you are confusing "the country" with "Fox News Hosts"

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If you are really interested in controlling health care costs you can start by demanding our immigration laws be enforced. That would cut down a lot of the costs that hospitals either must write off or pass on to those with insurance there by increasing the cost of premiums.
Costs are out of control, and the insurance companies that set these costs are posting record profits.I wonder if there might be a connection somewhere....

I am less concerned with controlling costs, and more concerned with bringing health care to the part of our citizens, and residents that have been deemed "disposable" by our current system.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:47 PM   #25
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I am less concerned with controlling costs, and more concerned with bringing health care to the part of our citizens, and residents that have been deemed "disposable" by our current system.
Is this how you manage your household?
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:02 PM   #26
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Is this how you manage your household?

As a matter of fact, it is.


If i woke up in the middle of the night and found my house had collapsed around me, the first thing I would do is make sure my family had a roof over their heads right away, even if I had no money and had to put them in a hotel and charge it to my credit card.

Now if my kids wanted an X-Box 360, and we didn't have the money, rest assured we'd still be playing with our Comadore 64 at Casa de Chips!

When a crisis hits, you deal with it first, and pay for it later. sometimes you pay a high price, but if you think we are not paying the ultimate cost now watching our citizens literally dying on our streets and under our bridges because they have no insurance, then we will never see eye-to-eye and should simply agree to disagree.

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Old 08-27-2009, 01:17 PM   #27
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I would do the same for my family.

We will agree to disagree.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:19 PM   #28
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I think you are confusing "the country" with "Fox News Hosts"

I do not recall which news broadcast I saw that number on, however FYI I watch MSNBC, Fox, CNBC, NBC, ABC, BBC, etc. I figure somewhere in between the lot of them is something that remotely resembles the truth. All media groups lean one way or the other these days and you are fool if you beleive any of them are non-partisan.

Costs are out of control, and the insurance companies that set these costs are posting record profits.I wonder if there might be a connection somewhere....

I am less concerned with controlling costs, and more concerned with bringing health care to the part of our citizens, and residents that have been deemed "disposable" by our current system.
Insurance companies for the most part are for profit. They make no bone about it. I don't like spending what I do on insurance premiums but I don't like the alternative either. That said most reputable insurance companies approve the majority of the claims submiited. They do not approve experimental techniques and I can't say that I really blame them for that. I can assure you the government plan will not approve experimental techniques either. Hospitals do not turn away those without health insurance. They are obligated to treat them whether they have insurance or not. There are also free clinics in many localities though not all. A large percentage of the uninsured are illegal immigrants. I myself do not want to pay for the health care of those here illegally and not contributing but I am forced to do so both under the current system and if it passes (doubtful) the proposed federal health care plan. The difference as far as that is concerned is the level of care will be lower with the federal plan which the funding is not in place for anyway.

So how will the government pay for it? One of two ways; raise taxes or print money. Niether option is good for the country. You are allready paying the majority of your income to taxes (look at all the taxes you pay and add it up FICA, SS,SUTA,Medicare, sales, property,sin tax,food tax, luxery tax, Etc.) so I guess you figure whats one more. The estimated cost to businesses for this healthcare plan is 13%, guess who's going to ultimately pay that. If you don't they are going to move off shore where they don't have to pay the extra taxes. Then we lose more jobs.

This really goes much deeper then you think it does. The problem the majority of this bills supporters have is they can't see the big picture and the long term effects it will have on the country. Go ahead, buy into all the rhetoric Obama wants to feed you and see where things end up, in it's current form this bill will change the current standards of health care in the country, for the worst. It will also cost Americans their jobs.
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:16 PM   #29
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Then we lose more jobs...... It will also cost Americans their jobs.
This is exactly the kind of "catch phrases" and rhetoric that is always spewed out by the opposition. It's this nonsense that is meant to anger and confuse the American public, thus continuing to line the pockets of big business (like insurance companies), politicians, special interest groups and their lobbyists.

this is why nothing gets accomplished, and our country is in the shape it's in, which started long before most of the country ever heard the name Barack Obama.

Quit worrying about losing American jobs, start worrying about the continuing loss of American lives. It's sad that so many people would rather to continue letting men, women and children live under overpasses and eat out of dumpsters. When you continue to buy into this ideology, all you do is make big business richer, and the richer they get, the greedier their stock holders get. So how do they make their stockholders happy? They take American jobs to other countries where people will work for less. The good news is, before too long we will be one of those countries willing to work for less if we continue paying homage to these greedy bastards and letting them brainwash us with sound bites on cable news shows. Aahhh, the Circle of life......

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Old 08-27-2009, 04:09 PM   #30
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Hospitals do not turn away those without health insurance. They are obligated to treat them whether they have insurance or not..
you are correct, but the problem is, with the exception of accident victims, a huge majority of these uninured ER patients are usually in pretty bad shape by this point, since they didn't have $100 bucks to go to the doctor when they first got the cut on their arm and the other $100 to pay for the peniciln that would have prevented the infection from spreading or the tetnus medication

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You are allready paying the majority of your income to taxes (look at all the taxes you pay and add it up FICA, SS,SUTA,Medicare, sales, property,sin tax,food tax, luxery tax, Etc.) so I guess you figure whats one more. .
right again, and somehow i still have everything i NEED and much of what I WANT . we should be ashamed to have so much, while there are people in our own towns that have so little. You guys are always preaching "the big picture", and somehow keep forgetting that the actual big picture is much bigger than just you

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