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Old 08-01-2013, 12:50 PM   #16
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Well.... FRACK!


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Gas Land 1 & 2 tells the best story how bad this disaster is. Next to it, is the underground storage of CO2.
Had not heard about CO2 storage but if true, an entire new can of worms opens, as the oil seeps with nobody able to get near the spill.

I am going to be unusually reserved in this. From all I know it is still a very large spill. Environmental clean-up crews could possibly contain this situation. If they can source the leak and contain the fracture.

Satellite photos do not lie though and while people on foot may not be able to see the spill? Telemetry I once helped program can spot the many dying birds and other creatures happening in real time and now. I will not yet call this a disaster but it comes close. As it oozes and grows.

I will call it a disaster when media does. Right now it is an environmental nightmare situation totally out of control, apparently in one of the most military sensitive areas of Canada. I am paranoid enough to think there is something more sensitive than buried CO2 involved here.

We cannot talk cheeseburgers or politics on this site anymore but last I heard impending environmental stuff effects all of us? Regardless of politics? This Canada thing is a big deal for all of us.

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Old 08-02-2013, 04:01 PM   #17
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We are in the midst of the Fracking explosion here in Eastern Ohio. The thing is, even if you don't lease your land to the Frackers, they are going in underneath you anyway so you may as well get some $$$ for your trouble. Is it right to do so? Of course not, but you know as they go miles below you with horizontal drilling techniques I highly doubt they are very careful about land boundaries.

Another problem that is starting to arise here in Ohio is all the out-of-town workers moving into the area or staying temporarily in hotels, etc. Crime is on the rise, traffic on country roads is busy, infrastructure is maxed out because so many small towns and villages cannot handle the influx of this new industry. I have a front row seat to all of this........

Most landowners I know of around here are getting nice royalty checks or at least nice start-up checks. My cousin has a small parcel of land a few miles out of the village and he received a $30,000 check. Stay tuned......
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:12 PM   #18
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I cannot blame anybody for picking up a quick $30K just to frack and horizontal drill their land. So long as somebody keeps an eye on it all. I just think busting up the Earth crust when you are not sure where it will actually open up and for sure what gases hide underneath rather brazen. Environmentally arrogant? Man knows more than nature?

I was with a branch of the Illinois Department of Natural Resources when something went horribly wrong and the State had to seize land and take over before it got worse. It was just horizontal drilling and the material used to line the pathways oozed over thousands of acres. I saw it and can only describe it is something like diatamaceous earth I once had to scrape of swimming pool filters or the Merck Chemical plant deposits I once found and processed working on the Save the Bay project. Nobody is going to be living on this piece of Illinois land for generations, if it can be fixed.

Company involved said, "Ooops. We should have watched more carefully!" and wrote the check they were asked to write so at least they stepped that far up to the plate. The amount was nothing close to the damage done and restoration costs of course. The State of Illinois know owns acres of crusty looking land though it hopes to restore. All tax revenue from it is gone of course.

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Old 08-02-2013, 08:07 PM   #19
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nothing like getting well water than could burn in addition to some money ..... now to figure out how to fuel your vehicles with it
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:28 PM   #20
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nothing like getting well water than could burn in addition to some money ..... now to figure out how to fuel your vehicles with it
What if we really thought about how much we need personal vehicles? Most are parked more than driven most of their lives. Sure, those of us in the trades put more mileage on vehicles than others but could we not have gotten by with 15 out of the 17 trucks parked all day at jobsites? Just sharing keys would spare us having to worry about how to fuel two? Would not our insatiable quest for oil diminish?

Like most, I thought nothing about someone borrowing my trucks. Keys were in the usual hidden places. Most often in the ignition switch or on the visor unless parked at night. Never had a truck stolen from me.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:03 PM   #21
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Here is an interesting concept for you.....

Remember the movie "Promised Land"...the anti fracking movie with Matt Damon?

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/09/28/...h-arab-nation/

So the allegation is the Arabs are behind it because they see fracking a danger to their oil sales.

What if they were also behind all the anit-fracking propaganda here?

Who do you believe?

But then again...this is the internet...so it has to be true....
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:55 PM   #22
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Here in Eastern Ohio we have already had one company get fined for dumping "Fracking water" into a sanitary sewer. That water mixture that they use to do the fracking comes back up as contaminated water with all sorts of chemicals, etc in it. They did it at night until someone got wise to them and reported it. Just makes you wonder how many other things they do hoping never to get caught.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:41 PM   #23
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Just an observation and thanks to all, .....

especially JimF Sdest,Gary, Dawg, for, on the most part, a reasoned discussion/argument (no bad connotation to argument) on the subject.

I did it, from design, site engineering, to financing for many years in the 80's.

Bottom line, no one knows the effects over extended periods when you're fracking from 3000 feet to 32000 feet.

Bottom line, no one knows the effects when a society either exists without sufficient energy, or as dog points out, becomes dependent selling out to forign societies.

Bottom line, no one ultimately knows the long term effects that starting your car in the morning creates, or getting on an airplane, or "crossing the street"

HOWEVER, it's really good that people are thinking it out and evaluating the tradeoffs/costs/alternatives.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:46 PM   #24
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Just an observation and thanks to all, .....

especially JimF Sdest,Gary, Dawg, for, on the most part, a reasoned discussion/argument (no bad connotation to argument) on the subject.

I did it, from design, site engineering, to financing for many years in the 80's.

Bottom line, no one knows the effects over extended periods when you're fracking from 3000 feet to 32000 feet.

Bottom line, no one knows the effects when a society either exists without sufficient energy, or as dog points out, becomes dependent selling out to forign societies.

Bottom line, no one ultimately knows the long term effects that starting your car in the morning creates, or getting on an airplane, or "crossing the street"

HOWEVER, it's really good that people are thinking it out and evaluating the tradeoffs/costs/alternatives.
Nice post. I just hope we are on to thinking about it soon enough.

And about the alternatives we might have.

And I am not saying the technology and its engineering is necessarily horrid. I am just saying we dare not "set it and forget it!" and just walk away with out a monitoring program over fracking, horizontal drilling, or blowing up the Earth crust and wondering where shale oil will come out.

And of course as long as we remain the largest consumer of processed fossil fuels on the planet, we want our vehicles to start in the morning. Let us please just admit we pay a what looks to be a long term price for this luxury? It is not environmentally sustainable though and when people get over thinking the discussion is political we might move forward?

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Old 08-03-2013, 10:05 PM   #25
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Nice post. I just hope we are on to thinking about it soon enough.

And about the alternatives we might have.

And I am not saying the technology and its engineering is necessarily horrid. I am just saying we dare not "set it and forget it!" and just walk away with out a monitoring program over fracking, horizontal drilling, or blowing up the Earth crust and wondering where shale oil will come out.

And of course as long as we remain the largest consumer of processed fossil fuels on the planet, we want our vehicles to start in the morning. Let us please just admit we pay a what looks to be a long term price for this luxury? It is not environmentally sustainable though and when people get over thinking the discussion is political we might move forward?
I have NFGI (g stands for good), but I sure agree,,,, THANKS

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Old 08-04-2013, 09:36 AM   #26
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$2000 an acre I own 5 1/2 acres.Same when the mining came thru. That was settlement money.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:55 AM   #27
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$2000 an acre I own 5 1/2 acres.Same when the mining came thru. That was settlement money.
Bob...... Interesting.... but what was the payment for.

Was that a royalty advance for leasing your acerage.

Was that a court ordered /or class settlement for damages of some sort.

As to your personal opinion, was that a fair sufficient payment... did you agree to it?

Just interested... it's an important issue.

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Old 08-04-2013, 10:24 PM   #28
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Well I work in the oil field, don't worry about the frac worry about the drilling and the caseing that makes up the hole that the fluids come through. If the cement job is bad that is when you have to worry about leaks. But the water table is way closer to the surface the shale deposits that the oil is in. All fracking does is split the rock and place sand in the cracks to hold it open. There are two main ways to get through the caseing and the concrete. Casing that has preset holes or perfing useing explosives to blow holes through the caseing. The perfing is the one that could lead to fracking into the water table how ever it very seldom happens and If the guns go off to at the wrong time it's easy to stop the job and fix the problem
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:45 PM   #29
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Being the objective engineering type....and not prone to believing everything on the internet (yea, I know, the internet never lies)....I did some research on Fracking...

Methane was found in the drinking water near fracking wells.....but even higher concentrations were found in water away from the fracking...so...is the methane from natural reasons or from the Fracking?

Sounds like Fracking is getting the blame for naturally occurring contamination.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...lute-water-ap/


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...fracked-wells/

Quote:
A landmark federal study on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, shows no evidence that chemicals from the natural gas drilling process moved up to contaminate drinking water aquifers at a western Pennsylvania drilling site, the Department of Energy told The Associated Press.

After a year of monitoring, the researchers found that the chemical-laced fluids used to free gas trapped deep below the surface stayed thousands of feet below the shallower areas that supply drinking water, geologist Richard Hammack said.

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