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Old 05-24-2012, 10:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by creeper View Post
I wonder just what freedoms you stand to lose by the implementation of a universal health care system?
It seems to me there will be some to gain if some fat cat from the insurance office has no say in which treatments you are eligible for.

We could argue this crap all year but its late. I have enjoyed great health care for 60 years now by selecting my own doctors, getting timely appointments and either getting employer sponsored medical coverage or self pay at times. ...

I will make it simple for you seeing that you have no right to speak so eloquently about a country or its population when you do not even live in the USA. The United States Government has a solid record of over inflating, abusing, and basically screwing up every program that it takes control of. ...

Need I say more about my concern of our health care system being reduced to gibberish by the OC program ? And doesnt the Supreme Court of the US having to judge the Constitutionality of the OC plan, give us moron conservatives some creedence for our concerns ?

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Old 05-24-2012, 10:33 PM   #32
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As long as you take license to perpetrate falsehoods about our system and the so called long wait times and less than American -comparable care, then I have every right to freedom of speech (isn't that part of your constitution). In other words....you started it

Besides I never said Obama Care was the answer..I don't kno whether it is or isn't...but I will say again that it is nothing short of criminal that some of your countrymen go without care or lose financially to aquire proper care. Some sort of universal health care NEEDS to be in place for all of your people.

Geez man are you not concerned about the fact that your life expectancy is lower than ours and the infant mortality rate is higher.

I'm truly happy for you that you have enjoyed good care for sixty years, but many many people in your country, through no fault of their own, have been denied that privilege. And thats a stinkin shame

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Old 05-24-2012, 11:37 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by creeper View Post
As long as you take license to perpetrate falsehoods about our system and the so called long wait times and less than American -comparable care, then I have every right to freedom of speech (isn't that part of your constitution). In other words....you started it

Besides I never said Obama Care was the answer..I don't kno whether it is or isn't...but I will say again that it is nothing short of criminal that some of your countrymen go without care or lose financially to aquire proper care. Some sort of universal health care NEEDS to be in place for all of your people.

Geez man are you not concerned about the fact that your life expectancy is lower than ours and the infant mortality rate is higher.

I'm truly happy for you that you have enjoyed good care for sixty years, but many many people in your country, through no fault of their own, have been denied that privilege. And thats a stinkin shame
I think this is the fundamental difference between your mindset, and the opposition to it. Apparently you have some notion that folks here are allowed to die in the gutter while people speed by them in their BMW's. It just not the case, and never has been. Everyone has the right and ability to seek and purchase health insurance coverage, some just decide their Ipod/cell phone contract/junk food/alcohol/drug addiction/etc.... is a higher priority than their health. As a matter of fact, you could make the argument that it's "easier" here to go uninsured and on the dole, rather than work your tail off and simply buy minimal health insurance. And, every single citizen of this country has the option of socialized healthcare already, we can simply move North of the border to Canada. Watch out for the influx of Americans.........
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:52 PM   #34
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Ok fair enough, but is it not true that non Doctors ( read insurance company fat cats ) are determining how much chemo 80 yr old granny can have. Are they false rumours that people can fill their alloted quota of care and then they are cut off?

What about hard working folk.. say a single mom with two jobs and three buses to the day care centre. She makes just enough not to qualify for mediaid or whatever you call it, but not enough to truly get by. She's choosing between shoes and mitts for her kids or overinflated premiums.
Come on you know I'm not wrong. I hear and read about these huge premiums people have to pay all the time. It never used to be unattainable for the average hard working person. If it works why are so many people complaining that it doesn't. I'm sure there is more to it then bad spending habits

As far as coming north..come on over, we are fun and friendly people, providing you can stand being cold for half the year

I gotta get some sleep, my sleigh leaves early tomorrow morning

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Old 05-25-2012, 12:03 AM   #35
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Everyone has the right and ability to seek and purchase health insurance coverage, some just decide their Ipod/cell phone contract/junk food/alcohol/drug addiction/etc.... is a higher priority than their health.
How old are you? Something makes me wonder if you are on a spouse healthcare plan from where she works?

I cannot yet get health insurance at any cost reasonable because of totally non-threatening but pre-existing conditions.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:10 AM   #36
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Good luck on your surgery tomorrow. I wish you a speedy recovery
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:19 AM   #37
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How old are you? Something makes me wonder if you are on a spouse healthcare plan from where she works?

I cannot yet get health insurance at any cost reasonable because of totally non-threatening but pre-existing conditions.
You hit the nail on the head, I've been self-employed for 13 years, and my wife runs a small day-care out of our home.

I've never in my life been elibable for employer-sponsored healthcare, although I'm sure at many points in my career, I HAVE been eligible for state-funded healthcare, but I refuse to except it.

I have 2 little kids under 2 years of age, and subsequently have paid for 2 C-sections out of pocket in the last 2 years (actually paid about $18K less than a month ago on the second) due to the fact that we CHOOSE to purchase minimal health insurance and forge our own employment path rather than answer to an employer. I have no reservations with doing so, it's not as big of a deal as most people make it out to be. I focus harder on creating income rather than dwelling on paying debts I am responsible for. As such, I tend to be of the belief that the best thing the government can due is get the hell out of my way and allow me to accomplish what I'm able to while I'm able to do it rather than attempt to manage me by over-taxing me and telling me what's best for me.

I could pi$$ and moan about how life is unfair, or I can put my nose to the grindstone take responsibility for my actions and decisions, and realize the Sun will continue to rise in the East & set in the West, regardless of what Big Brother mandates............
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:26 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by creeper View Post
Ok fair enough, but is it not true that non Doctors ( read insurance company fat cats ) are determining how much chemo 80 yr old granny can have. Are they false rumours that people can fill their alloted quota of care and then they are cut off?

What about hard working folk.. say a single mom with two jobs and three buses to the day care centre. She makes just enough not to qualify for mediaid or whatever you call it, but not enough to truly get by. She's choosing between shoes and mitts for her kids or overinflated premiums.
Come on you know I'm not wrong. I hear and read about these huge premiums people have to pay all the time. It never used to be unattainable for the average hard working person. If it works why are so many people complaining that it doesn't. I'm sure there is more to it then bad spending habits

As far as coming north..come on over, we are fun and friendly people, providing you can stand being cold for half the year

I gotta get some sleep, my sleigh leaves early tomorrow morning
I personally know quite a few Canadians, and I have talked to them about their healthcare options. I'm not throwing blanket statements out about the system, I think that's been your perogative so far in this thread.

As for why are so many people complaining in the US? Because our government has spent that last 30-40 years over regulating everything they can, and obviously health care is no exception. Remove some of the government's over-handling, and healthcare here will slowly go into auto-correct as it re-enters the "free-market" economy"..........
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:41 AM   #39
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Canada plays with a different set of rules than the US. First of all they don't have any military since we manage to be their sole protector...that is a huge savings for Canada. Secondly, compared to the US, Canada has 1/10 of our ecomomy, not too far from third world countries. And they really have nothing to lose from using tax dollars towards a socialized health care. I'm sure it's great for coughs and colds. I do agree that the insurance companies have way too much power and control over medicine here in the states. That is what needs to be fixed. The Obama health care "plan" has done nothing but raise insurance rates....the companies are planning for the sweeping changes that will happen if the Obama plan actually passes. Major businesses always are being pro-active to stay alive in the state of flux the ecomomy is here in the states. But Canada manages to stay afloat no matter what happens to the rest of the world. I guess if you have nothing to lose you can do what you want.
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:24 AM   #40
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O.K. I am like everyone else when it comes to listening to someone preaching about what they are not a expert in ( me included) .

So, I will share here what 3 different doctors told me when I asked them their opinion about the OC plan. Their replies were all the same to me .... " You dont want to see that happen".
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:34 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
You hit the nail on the head, I've been self-employed for 13 years, and my wife runs a small day-care out of our home.

I've never in my life been elibable for employer-sponsored healthcare, although I'm sure at many points in my career, I HAVE been eligible for state-funded healthcare, but I refuse to except it.

I have 2 little kids under 2 years of age, and subsequently have paid for 2 C-sections out of pocket in the last 2 years (actually paid about $18K less than a month ago on the second) due to the fact that we CHOOSE to purchase minimal health insurance and forge our own employment path rather than answer to an employer. I have no reservations with doing so, it's not as big of a deal as most people make it out to be. I focus harder on creating income rather than dwelling on paying debts I am responsible for. As such, I tend to be of the belief that the best thing the government can due is get the hell out of my way and allow me to accomplish what I'm able to while I'm able to do it rather than attempt to manage me by over-taxing me and telling me what's best for me.

I could pi$$ and moan about how life is unfair, or I can put my nose to the grindstone take responsibility for my actions and decisions, and realize the Sun will continue to rise in the East & set in the West, regardless of what Big Brother mandates............
If you think you are happy paying for your 18k for your childs birth then that is your choice, but once again, I would bet that your tax rate is probably not hugely cheaper then mine.

Personally, I'd rather see that money go to my child's education
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:43 AM   #42
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Canada plays with a different set of rules than the US. First of all they don't have any military since we manage to be their sole protector...that is a huge savings for Canada. Secondly, compared to the US, Canada has 1/10 of our ecomomy, not too far from third world countries. And they really have nothing to lose from using tax dollars towards a socialized health care. I'm sure it's great for coughs and colds. I do agree that the insurance companies have way too much power and control over medicine here in the states. That is what needs to be fixed. The Obama health care "plan" has done nothing but raise insurance rates....the companies are planning for the sweeping changes that will happen if the Obama plan actually passes. Major businesses always are being pro-active to stay alive in the state of flux the ecomomy is here in the states. But Canada manages to stay afloat no matter what happens to the rest of the world. I guess if you have nothing to lose you can do what you want.
You have got to be kidding me. You cannot possible be so naive about Canada. You must just be trying to get a rise out me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...ican_economies

Last edited by creeper; 05-25-2012 at 06:03 AM.
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:54 AM   #43
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O.K. I am like everyone else when it comes to listening to someone preaching about what they are not a expert in ( me included) .

So, I will share here what 3 different doctors told me when I asked them their opinion about the OC plan. Their replies were all the same to me .... " You dont want to see that happen".

I never pretended to have the answer to the American health care crisis. And whether some of you have been convinced it is not in crisis is not the point. I and will reiterate, I never said Obama care is the answer.

My point is I am NOT preaching, I am defending a subject about my country that YOU brought up. Simple.

You will notice that previous to your initial comments about Canada's health care system and someone else's ridiculous stab about us as a third world country, I was silent about the state of your country.
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:18 AM   #44
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Granted you could stuff the entire population of Canada into California, so obviously our economy is 1/10 yours. data must be measured on a per captia basis.

One of the main reasons Canada managed to stay afloat in the world economic crisis that the States created was because of stricter lending practices on the part of the banks.

Greedy lenders irresponsibly handed out to much dough to people who continued to max themselves.

In all my years as a RE professional, I have never seen a foreclosure. What we have up here ( and I do see these very occasionally ) is a bank-owned property called a power of sale. It is similar in that the bank reposses the home due to non payment of mortgage, But the bank is required by law to re sell the property at market value. The owner has first right of refusal all the way up to the minute of closing, so if he can come up with funds he can re claim his property.
The bank then gives back all the equity in the property to the original owner. Less lost shirts
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:39 AM   #45
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The OC bill is a catchall bill. Nobody I talked too understood all of it. I did understand the portion that dictated that contractors like me keep records of all businesses I did business with and file 1099's on Lowes, R&S, Bradco, and even Wal-Mart forchristsake.
I even understand the bill that Obama OK'd to be put before the UN. If passed, all Americans may have to register and turn in all firearms and ammuntion they have. KOrea, China, Iran and a few others are trying hard to disarm this country. I have to wonder what that's about. Canadians will probably have to turn all their rifles and shotguns too. ??
I'll vote for ABO at this point.
I assume by affordable HC, I can expect to pay $20. or so for HI instead of $300+ in premiums, which will be nice.

But, since HC will be affordable for individuals, I hope it means that businesses can drop all health care plans and let employees pay their own way. It could mean lower costs for services and products across the board. I might even hire somebody again.

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