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-   -   Opensimulator (http://www.diychatroom.com/f39/opensimulator-178779/)

RWolff 05-05-2013 12:56 AM

Opensimulator
 
I use a Dell workstation to run the open source, opensimulator software, this runs on any OS but requires a mySQL database, and a router that can do NAT loopback and port forwarding.
It runs from the command line in terminal. Once up and running a separate viewer can log in, and move throughout the 3D space, build, use scripts which control objects, sounds, music, video, actions, chat with others, others can log in and stand there next to you in real time as well.

It can be run privately on a local network, or connected to a public access grid.


Here's some stuff I've done in-world, anyone else mess around with this or similar?

http://i.imgur.com/2IG8BGPl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/wMK5aOXl.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/zBbpqON.jpg

ddawg16 05-05-2013 12:09 PM

Wolf.....I doubt more than 0.0538% of the readers to this site have any clue as to what your talking about....

One question...how much time does it take you to set up one scene? I'm assuming that once it's set up with the objects, moving them around is simple? View aspect, shadowing automatic?

Me? I understand what your doing....but It's not something that have interest in.....I'm just not into the gaming or CG thing...I'm an automation geek....I'm more interested in working with IO hardware....though, I wouldn't mind getting your comments on MySQL....I'm looking to change the database we use on our software (Paradox..yes I know, no abuse please...it was not my decision back then). I'm looking at MySQL, DBExpress and a couple of other thin client setups.

On a somewhat related note....I'm looking to get back into Unix (Linux) on a PC plateform....you have to admit....the hardware is cheap and options abound....but then again, I'm an old fan of the Motorola 68K family....too bad Apple dumped it...

As soon as I finish my 2-story addition and have a couple of hours in the evening...I want to build up a dedicated DVR/Server....record TV programs and video off security cameras....and maybe act as a server. The unix approach means I don't have to worry about malware....etc...

I haven't even looked into Linux compilers or OS's yet....I've got an old copy of RedHat and Delphi's Kylix....but way too old...

Mort 05-05-2013 03:57 PM

I understood some of the words in these posts. "It," "and," "others." But that's about it.

TheEplumber 05-05-2013 05:27 PM

So, is this a game of sorts or what?
I use to game a lot- would even mod the server files to change aspects of the game.
Looks interesting, but to be honest I need a scoring system or objectives to hold my interest- I need to pwn someone once and a while :)

RWolff 05-05-2013 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEplumber (Post 1173180)
So, is this a game of sorts or what?
I use to game a lot- would even mod the server files to change aspects of the game.
Looks interesting, but to be honest I need a scoring system or objectives to hold my interest- I need to pwn someone once and a while :)


No, not really a "game" per sei, it's a fully interactive 3D world where you can create, build, communicate, script etc.
Unlike the CG games out there with a pre-set environment you can't change like a movie, opensim is dynamic- YOU control everything and can change everything.
You work on a square of land just called a "region" which is based on real land, each region is 256m x 256m, which in real land is about 8 acres of space. You can have hundreds of these regions all connected to one another or not, with a few commands in the terminal.

Quote:

One question...how much time does it take you to set up one scene? I'm assuming that once it's set up with the objects, moving them around is simple? View aspect, shadowing automatic?
It depends on what you create, there are many pre-made freely available objects such as trees, plants, buildings, vehicles, scripts, textures, and even entire regions all ready to plug-in. I do a combination of create from scratch and using free objects.
Shadows and lighting are elements you control and create, there is an automatic day/night cycle that generates 4 cycles per 24 hours, but even this is completely configurable. With the day/night cycles there does tend to be shadows but most like emphasize the effect more with special textures or techniques.

The pic of the big room with the tables and kerosine lamps is a replica of the gothic University of Idaho administration building, it's huge, complex, a lot of parts (over 9,000) and I designed as I went, I spent most of last summer working on that a few minutes here and there, an hour here and there, two at a session if I felt up to it.
Those kerosine lamps by the way are scripted and they provide light when touched.

I can think of any number of ways people can use this, including those who are involved with renovation, construction, remodelling, since you can take photos of real walls, roofs, floors and things and use them to re-create a walk-through room or house, landscaped etc.

I made a quick video, not really showing creating anything in it, but a real quick fly around describing some features.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plgZAw_ue8Q

A demo of some of the tools and building methods:

http://youtu.be/7b4sxSsUkqY




Quote:

I wouldn't mind getting your comments on MySQL....I'm looking to change the database we use on our software (
MySQL is the gold standard, and free, it's used by pretty much every isp/web host around and is included in your control panel for your web site, I don't care for using it via command line, I much prefer using the phpmyadmin on the front-end (which is what the web hosts include too)
Opensimulator uses MySQL lite built in, but changing one line in the config file makes it change to use a full MySQL database instead. I have no issues with MySQL though for some installations, some versions have different bugs that can cause problems, so one has to be sure to get either the version required by software, or get the latest one.

TheEplumber 05-06-2013 01:29 AM

Funny you mentioned the UI building. I've worked off and on at that campus but I haven't seen that one. Looks good.

I'm going to forward your links to my son, he likes this kind of stuff. he got into Garry's World and Rune Scape for a bit-

This stuff fascinates me but the learning curve kills me. I don't know enough and get frustrated.:furious: The best I've done is build a couple basic Call of Duty maps a few years ago using their dev kit. Also tinkered with the Source engine for counterstrike. :)

RWolff 05-06-2013 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEplumber (Post 1173529)
Funny you mentioned the UI building. I've worked off and on at that campus but I haven't seen that one. Looks good.

I'm going to forward your links to my son, he likes this kind of stuff. he got into Garry's World and Rune Scape for a bit-

This stuff fascinates me but the learning curve kills me. I don't know enough and get frustrated. The best I've done is build a couple basic Call of Duty maps a few years ago using their dev kit. Also tinkered with the Source engine for counterstrike.

Oh funny! well, when my full install is available I might do a video of that UI building, I never found pics of the inside so that interior room is fictional though the stained glass windows and the layout is based on actual photos.
There is a pretty steep learning curve, not only on the initial setup but learning the rest. The think everyone has a problem with is their router and port forwarding, invariably everyone has at least one setting wrong the first try, and every setting has to be correct or it doesn't start up.

This uses a number of modules and it's pretty interesting how you can select which modules to activate etc. The developers are working on the web browser based access to log in (it currently uses a "viewer" people have to download, install and you guessed it- learn how to use) but it all runs on command line in terminal and not everyone is comfortable with that.

Here is the front, with snow, you can generate snow flakes in this environment, and rain using what they call the particle engine run with scripts:

http://i.imgur.com/16KSfgJl.jpg


And this is while making the build compared to a pic of the real one, that clock in my build does work,and it also has Westminster chimes that toll every quarter hour, again, controlled by scripts and sound files.

http://i.imgur.com/vzEg58Gl.png

RWolff 05-06-2013 09:20 PM

I mentioned earlier about free content, here is a new 3D mesh horse I just found on the web when someone posted a link to the site, they have a horse and a cow in blender format with the textures included which can be converted to the .dae file required to upload this to my simulator and use it there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Ik4h6ULjQ

http://i.imgur.com/5CeuirU.jpg

RWolff 06-06-2013 02:21 AM

I kind of felt like building something totally off the wall different tonight and while I'm working on the textures and colors I'll be thinking about adding more shapes and additional movement rings of different sizes along with a winding walk-thru tube through it all.
The full screen recorder takes a lot of resources when the opensimulator viewer is also open along with all the other stuff I have open, so the movement is not smooth in the video like it is, but standing there in-world and seeing all these cubes slowly rotating in different directions and speeds is mesmerizing, and curiously relaxing.
I just lock the in-world camera onto one of the objects as it rotates, and the camera goes along for the ride:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13rRnPG9cjI


http://i.imgur.com/BQ4h8c0.png

wkearney99 06-06-2013 08:04 AM

Kinda like secondlife and the like. Yeah, they're sort of fun. And it's amazing what modern computing gear can accomplish. I did a lot of 3D back in the 90's when there wasn't the power for it.

Trouble is the public at large just does not buy into the 3D experience as it stands. At least not for much more than gaming. All the 3D proponents will desperately try to argue otherwise, but the audience just isn't there. It's just too hard to create an immersive and realistic enough experience for the masses to believe in it. Sure, for purpose-built fantasy scenarios like video games it's amazing. But not much more, at least as far as the general public is concerned. For modeling of business scenarios it's great, but that's often just a one-at-a-time situation.

So 3D continues to plod along, seeming like a really cool thing... that isn't.

RWolff 06-06-2013 09:36 AM

It's the same as Secondlife actually, but free :)
You'd be surprised how popular it is, Secondlife typically has 50,000 people logged in at all times, and they have right around 28,000 paid regions on the system, which when you consider the full regions cost $295 USD/month is a considerable amount of money people are spending there.
According to one of the web sites that publishes monthly statistics on opensimulator- there are roughtly 250,000 people involved with it and it's growing.

The really amazing thing is how people will spend $295/mo for a region in Secondlife when they can get the same thing for free in opensimulator! The regions in Secondlife cost $1,000 USD to initiate if you get them from the company as opposed to "buying" a used one from a private party.

I was just at a region owned by the University of Cincinatti, there's a lot of Universities and businesses that have a simulator.
The graphic 3D realism is pretty decent, but 95% of it all is getting and using the right images for the textures, the better the quality of the images used the better the overall is.
Mesh has a lot of possibilities and there's a guy who makes mesh cars to use on a racetrack, I've tried the racetrack out and it's pretty cool.

The military has been working on a grid of it's own, testing capabilities and developing it too.

wkearney99 06-06-2013 09:47 AM

50k out of 7 billion people on the planet doesn't exactly rate as much more than a statistical blip. Almost too low to measure and barely enough to be profitable. "Considerable" means different things to different people.

Again, I think 3D is great stuff, but after spending a lot of time and money on it, the realization is that it's just not something the masses will consume in anything other than trivial amounts. Getting the quality good enough for the public is EXTREMELY difficult. Just look at how 3D movies that try to be completely photorealistic fare... they don't make as much money. The brain just will not tolerate pseudo-realistic imagery unless it's PERFECT. And it's astoundingly hard to model that, let alone render it in real time.

For fringe applications it's great stuff. Just not enough for most people to bother, neither to spend time nor money.

As for setting up independent servers, it's all about the social aspects. A hole in the wall bar might be a lot crappier than a higher-end lounge. But it's the people that flock to it that make the difference. Same thing with any online experience, if there's nobody at the party then nobody will come. Chicken... meet egg.

RWolff 06-06-2013 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkearney99 (Post 1196169)
Again, I think 3D is great stuff, but after spending a lot of time and money on it, the realization is that it's just not something the masses will consume in anything other than trivial amounts. Getting the quality good enough for the public is EXTREMELY difficult.
For fringe applications it's great stuff. Just not enough for most people to bother, neither to spend time nor money.
.

Well I know the devs are working making it web browser accessable, as it stands now you need a special viewer that resembles a web browser and there's a learning curve to use that too.
Right now it's still quite complicated to initially set up, you need to know your router, how to set port forwarding NAT loopback, you need to know how to set up an initial mySQL database/user- command line is the typical way but phpmyadmin is used by some, and you need to know some basics about how to navigate in the command line of terminal.

It's not real hard, and there's loads of tutorials and help out there, but the slightest error in settings and it won't start up. Once it's set up however, it's real easy to administer and run.
It may not have a statistically large number out of 7 billion, but there is an enthusiastic large crowd of devoted followers. People do make a living with it if they have the skills, they can either buy regions and rent them out, or they can make goods and services to sell, so people who are very good at photoshop, blender etc can make money creating avatars, clothing, houses etc. People who are good at scripting language can make money creating scripts and scripted objects.

There's one guy who came up with a rental script system and he made tons and tons of money because almost everyone who rents land or parcels in Secondlife needs it and bought it. There's another one who came up with the scripts to stream youtube videos into a player and was selling big screen TV sets scripted to allow users to select videos by searching or via a menu system.

But those are not very common breakthroughs where one person develops a hugely popular in demand applicaiton like a rental script or video player script.

Willie T 06-06-2013 02:54 PM

Pretty horse. Nice,,,, uh, rabbit?... too.

wkearney99 06-06-2013 03:14 PM

Even it was instantly set up it's still not going to reach enough of an audience to even remotely come close to becoming something that appeals to wide audience.

"Tons of money" is, again, relative. Much like what someone's idea of "a living" might be.

When I hear of stuff like 'renting' in second life I know people have too much free time on their hands. What a ridiculous waste.


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