Oils And Water - Off Topic - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > The Break Room > Off Topic

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2010, 07:23 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 188
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by rjordan393
Thanks all,
The oil pumper serviceman was here today while I was working in the rear of the house and my sister answered the door. So I did not realize he was here until after he was gone. I wanted to ask him if the company had follow up visits to further check the tank to make sure water is from condensation and not a leak from the outside.

I am a retired firefighter and appreciate the answers but the suggestion to boil the water off appears foolish. I'll play it safe and let the pro handle it. This service person left an invoice but there is nothing on it to indicate that followup visits will be performed. If I get the same amount of water next year on a 275 gallon in ground tank, I'll ask about reasonable amounts of water condensation.
Actually industries use that method of boiling off hundreds of gallons of water alk the time. Foolish no, practical very. They call them evaporators and as a retired fire fighter you probaly haven't beem to many of those fires, they don't happen. Also legal.

Could you buy a new tank and put it elsewhere.

You seemed to be worried about doing it right, get rid of the inground. Those aren't legal any more and pose an environmental hazard. Though they are grandfathered in. How do you know there is no hole in the tank. Have you had it inspected???

Hydraulic systems use dessicant to control in rush of moisture. We screw them on to the tank breather. I don't know if if they make or recomend them for home oil tanks i am not a oil professional.

Advertisement


Last edited by ianc435; 11-27-2010 at 07:34 AM.
ianc435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 12:44 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 188
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere

You seem to be confusing processes for lubricating oil, and heating oil.

Heating oil is not heated to the boiling point of water to get rid of the water.

Motor oil can not flash at 212F, heating oil can. And at 140F, it will sustain a flame.
Good to know. Will it still freeze and seperate from water. I think it does. It also will separate from water. Just like deisel.
I think your confusing motor oil with hydraulic oil. They are not the same stuff. Put hydro oil in your engine and watch what happens. It pretty exciting. Hydraulic oils do not have much librication just bare minimuns.

Advertisement


Last edited by ianc435; 11-27-2010 at 12:51 PM.
ianc435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 05:02 PM   #3
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,569
Rewards Points: 4,776
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by ianc435 View Post
Good to know. Will it still freeze and seperate from water. I think it does. It also will separate from water. Just like deisel.
I think your confusing motor oil with hydraulic oil. They are not the same stuff. Put hydro oil in your engine and watch what happens. It pretty exciting. Hydraulic oils do not have much librication just bare minimuns.
No. not confusing motor oil and hydraulic oil.

Water is very easy to get out of motor oil.

Separating water from oil is fairly easy in may applications. just need to know how quick you need to separate it, and how much in that time period.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 05:14 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 188
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere

No. not confusing motor oil and hydraulic oil.

Water is very easy to get out of motor oil.

Separating water from oil is fairly easy in may applications. just need to know how quick you need to separate it, and how much in that time period.
Yes u are. Hydraulic oil is not lubricating oil. Motor oil is lubricating oil. Thus the name HYDRAULIC OIL.
ianc435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 05:30 PM   #5
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,569
Rewards Points: 4,776
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by ianc435 View Post
Yes u are. Hydraulic oil is not lubricating oil. Motor oil is lubricating oil. Thus the name HYDRAULIC OIL.
No I'm not.

Motor oil IS VERY EASY TO GET WATER OUT OF.

Its done every day, millions of times, and to millions of gallons of water.

All engines are open to the atmosphere. And hence allow large amounts of moisture to be absorbed by the oil. The heating of the oil by the engines heat(lubrication also cools an engine). Drys out the oil. Thats why you don't have a moisture/water separator on a engine. Its not needed because the engines heat, is the drying force.

Hydraulic oil is also dried the same way to a minor extent. But often requires a water separator due to the air constantly being drawing into the reservoir tank. Where the water will settle and not be warmed to evaporate. Then it eventually gets picked up by the pump, and causes all sorts of neat problems.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 05:53 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 188
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere

No I'm not.

Motor oil IS VERY EASY TO GET WATER OUT OF.

Its done every day, millions of times, and to millions of gallons of water.

All engines are open to the atmosphere. And hence allow large amounts of moisture to be absorbed by the oil. The heating of the oil by the engines heat(lubrication also cools an engine). Drys out the oil. Thats why you don't have a moisture/water separator on a engine. Its not needed because the engines heat, is the drying force.

Hydraulic oil is also dried the same way to a minor extent. But often requires a water separator due to the air constantly being drawing into the reservoir tank. Where the water will settle and not be warmed to evaporate. Then it eventually gets picked up by the pump, and causes all sorts of neat problems.
What engines are we talking about?
ianc435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 05:55 PM   #7
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,569
Rewards Points: 4,776
Default

Oils and water


Car/truck engines.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 05:59 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 188
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere
Car/truck engines.
Wrong. These have oring on everything. Pvc is for positive diplacement. The only true leakers are two strokes. Oil tube oring. Oilf fill cap oring. Where is all the water going into the engine. Besides the unbroken rings in side of of a new or worn engine. Tolernaces are minimal.
ianc435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 06:05 PM   #9
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,569
Rewards Points: 4,776
Default

Oils and water


At no time are all the valves closed at the same time. including when the engine is shut off. At least one valve will be partially open. This is where the cool air and moisture comes in from.

Next. The engine needs air for combustion. No air, no combustion. All air contains moisture, so moisture/water is brought into the engine the entire time its running.

There are no o-rings that prevent moisture or water from being drawn into the engine.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 06:08 PM   #10
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,569
Rewards Points: 4,776
Default

Oils and water


Moved this discussion to Off topic forum.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 06:14 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 188
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere
At no time are all the valves closed at the same time. including when the engine is shut off. At least one valve will be partially open. This is where the cool air and moisture comes in from.

Next. The engine needs air for combustion. No air, no combustion. All air contains moisture, so moisture/water is brought into the engine the entire time its running.

There are no o-rings that prevent moisture or water from being drawn into the engine.
Well actually if you pour water down an intake, which is a seal side of an engine, it will retain in the
cylinders not the oil pan. Cracked head oil to coolant passages with engine off will get moisture in pan. But that coolant.. The only way yoy get moisture in a pan by pouring it in is badly scoured cylinder walls. Oil seal walks of cylinder unless oil control ring are worn badly, or gone and the the oth two or three, for some disels are completely gone. Usually the engine is toast by then.

Does the moisture ever condense on a cylinder wall that is over 700 degrees???? Nope.

When you find an engine with over a teaspoon of water in the pan let me know. It probaly has the head off an outside for years, and if it did it woul have wipe out mains due to lack of lubrication, just like hydraulic oil.
ianc435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 06:16 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 188
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere
Moved this discussion to Off topic forum.
You started the off topic discussion
ianc435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 06:23 PM   #13
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,569
Rewards Points: 4,776
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by ianc435 View Post
You started the off topic discussion
Didn't say anything about who went off topic. Just said I moved it.

Water will run pass the compression and wipe rings.

As the cylinder walls cool after the engine is shut off, water will condense on them. Actually on the oil film on the cylinder walls.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 06:48 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 188
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere

Didn't say anything about who went off topic. Just said I moved it.

Water will run pass the compression and wipe rings.

As the cylinder walls cool after the engine is shut off, water will condense on them. Actually on the oil film on the cylinder walls.
Water is already condensed you mean water vapor. And no it won't "run" by rings.
ianc435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 07:12 PM   #15
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,569
Rewards Points: 4,776
Default

Oils and water


Quote:
Originally Posted by ianc435 View Post
Water is already condensed you mean water vapor. And no it won't "run" by rings.
Yes it will. Generally not an over night thing. Takes time, more then just a day or 2. The oil is thinner, and has to run past the rings first. then the water will sometime later.

Compression rings don't seal as tight when they are cold as when they are hot.

Advertisement

beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Linseed Oil bobat Painting 12 05-20-2011 05:22 AM
Latex over alkyd primer TVC15 Painting 15 08-15-2010 12:42 AM
white stains improvements Appliances 1 02-20-2009 05:26 PM
Oil, Latex, Acrylic... How to Choose? Turkmenbashy Painting 4 01-18-2009 12:30 PM
help Chuckman Off Topic 8 06-15-2006 11:06 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts