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Old 09-17-2010, 02:08 PM   #1
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This is a great lock however....





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Old 09-19-2010, 10:43 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by globallocky View Post
I certainly hope you havent invested in the latest Kwikset Smartkey technology. The problems with this product continue to mount.

Baldwin products were recently purchased by the same parent company as Kwikset and have started making their locks and hardware using the same types of cylinders.

If you purchase new products from any of these related manufacturers, you need to be aware that the techniques for opening these locks are too easy to duplicate.
Here is the < don't repost any video of this type here again > of the smartkey fault.......still want one?


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Old 09-19-2010, 12:54 PM   #3
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Here is the video of the smartkey fault.......still want one?
This is obviously your website that you are attempting to drive traffic to, (or you plagerized it in a previous post on this thread). I can't imagine you went through all the trouble to resurrect this old thread for any other reason.

Regardless, to compromise this lock does require some degree of expertise, or at the very least a would be criminal would have to be somewhat knowledgeable and prepared to by-pass this lock.

Most entry locks on the market can be bypassed with a cordless drill, screwdriver and a 1/8 bit. It seems silly to scare people about lock bumping and such as most homes have so many more vunerable spots than even the cheapest entry lock. Anyone with the knowledge and the preparedness to go lock bumping will more than likely be able to find another way in, especially in a single family residence. I truely belive that you could remove all the pins from a deadbolt, so that any blank that fits would work in it, and that if the home was ever broken into it would be because the theif broke a window, used a garage remote from an unlocked car, or kicked in the door, not because they bothered to attempt to defeat the deadbolt by picking, drilling or bumping
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:00 PM   #4
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Globallocky.

Don't re-post that link again.

It very irresponsible to post a link on how to break into a house on an open public website.

While that video will probably on on the web forever. We're not here to aid people in breaking into other people's homes or businesses.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:56 AM   #5
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It seems that in this here forum, it is okay to misrepresent a products quality and effectiveness.

Whilst it appears okay to post opinions on other products here, shouldnt all information pertaining to any products effectiveness and viability be in the public domain?

If the information is out there already for the rest of the world to see, why would you not want to be represented as morally responsible for including all sides in opinions on any product or service?

To deny your members the opportunity to view all opinions on a product or service you are effectively adding to the security by obscurity argument in the negative.

By deleting the links.....are you attempting to satisfy your advertisers or generally covering up? It appears that you are pandering to your advertisers.

There is an already expected responsibility (Law - DMCA) of forums and websites to come clean about their content as to paid for or not paid for opinions and comments. Denying the unalienable right to share an opinion in a public forum is akin to defrauding the public of the truth.

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Old 09-20-2010, 03:56 AM   #6
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Links showing how to do something illegal are not allowed

This is from the Admin of this site:

http://www.diychatroom.com/f2/how-si...99/#post221153

A simple, they are not as secure as they claim them to be. Would have been enough in your post.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:57 AM   #7
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By deleting the links.....are you attempting to satisfy your advertisers or generally covering up? It appears that you are pandering to your advertisers.
By deleting those links. I am protecting people from having others learn how to break into their house.
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:40 AM   #8
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By deleting the links.....are you attempting to satisfy your advertisers or generally covering up? It appears that you are pandering to your advertisers.
By posting links to your own website where you sell products and services, it seems that you are trying to advertise without paying to do so, then hiding behind some higher moral purpose. Give us a little credit, we may not be the brightest guys in the world, but we are not stupid either. It isn't at all shocking that a locksmith wouldn't want consumers to be able to rekey their own locks and cut them out of the picture. I watched th video you posted, and we both know that there are easier, and quieter ways to bypass most entry locks and deadbolts.
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:52 PM   #9
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Door locks. Are to keep honest people honest. Not to keep criminals out.

I don't care what kind of door or lock you have. If I really want in. I'm going to get in. I got lots of neat tools that will make quick work of doors, walls, steel bars, chains, etc.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:10 PM   #10
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The link that showed the Kwikset lock to be more pick resistant than the Schlage was impressive enough fo me. Doesn't Schlage typically make higher quality and higher priced locks than Kwikset?

I suppose if you were really determined to get into someone's home you could cut a hole in the wall with a chainsaw like the firefighters do.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:50 AM   #11
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I do not wish to rock the boat any more than I already have. But isn't the point about DIY Home Improvement, to learn the pro's and cons of products and services and how and why to install or complete the tasks yourself?

It is all about education. The reason this forum exists to to provide useful information to members, to help with their decision making processes.

I never told anyone not to purchase a product or that I hate it. I simply informed users of certain faults with the product. If those members still choose to purchase, that is their personal decision.

The creation of the smartlock was in answer to the lock bumping phenomenon, but the bypasses and ease of DIY (showing how to do it yourself) are all over the media. Choosing to embrace the media, by reporting all sides (the pro's and con's) only serves to display your authority and credibility as a website.

It is identical to a plumber or electrician or carpenter coming in here and suggesting reasons to build or repair or replace a product.

It is my opinion that all contributors to a public discussion on products, need to experience the pro's and cons of any product or why and when to use it. Without doing so, you could be considered to be a site selling DIY Products and Hardware, like enjoying the proceeds of the advertising that appears here from third party companies. Do you all work for Lowes or Home Depot, like the adverting here suggests?
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:12 PM   #12
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Mr. Chips,

I respect your thinking. However the use of key locks serves as much a purpose of privacy as security.

Most people want to protect themselves from non-destructive entry. If a determined thief wants to get in, wont they find the simplest way in?

The purpose of a better quality key system is simply an effort to slow down someone long enough that they will decide to go next door.

If a lock can be bypassed easily, that information is important for everyone to know, isnt it? It is not promoting break in techniques.

The link to my website is not about advertising, it's about education. I justify this by including a link to the source of the information. My site is simply like a free magazine on a particular subject niche.

It is not plagiarism if you reference the source of your subject. Do you not remember writing your thesis or papers in college? All references were required to be quoted.

I do want people to change their own locks, but how many will? how many will hold on to the learning tool? How many will hold on to the blue keyblank with the Schlage lock? Most will call a professional when it breaks down or they are accidentally locked out or screwed up changing the lock themselves.

It wont make much of a difference to me. The quality of the product speaks for itself. Just search online yourself, you will find other evidence of the same information that I write about.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by globallocky View Post
Mr. Chips,

I respect your thinking. However the use of key locks serves as much a purpose of privacy as security.

Most people want to protect themselves from non-destructive entry. If a determined thief wants to get in, wont they find the simplest way in.
Of course they will. Are you suggesting that the simplest way in is carrying an item in the hopes that your victim's home is protected by a smart key lock, so you can then insert said item and beat it into place with a hammer? This isn't too difficult, but by no means does it sound like the simpilest ( or stealthiest) means of illegal entry. I'm not a thief, but I have to imagine that the vast majoritiy of them don't care about making a nondistructive entry, unless of course they are international jewel theives hoping the crime goes unnoticed long enough for them to fence my jewels and be sipping pina coladas on a tropical island. With your method, I'm going to know somethings wrong the minute i try to put my key in the lock. I might not notice a broken basement window until days later

Quote:
Originally Posted by globallocky View Post
The purpose of a better quality key system is simply an effort to slow down someone long enough that they will decide to go next door.
Again, this assumes that the vast majority of breakins involves picked locks. I have nothing to back it up, nor do i care enough to search, but my instincts and life experience make me think that it's not the case. I'd go a step further to say that people who do report a picked or bumped lock probably do so for insurance reasons, since they don't want to risk having a claim denied because they left a door or window unlocked or wide open.

Quote:
Originally Posted by globallocky View Post
If a lock can be bypassed easily, that information is important for everyone to know, isnt it? It is not promoting break in techniques.
Most locks can be bypassed by people trained to do so, I think this is a universal truth that we all accept, but I think your intent is simply to scare people into avoiding a product that threatens your livelyhood. The other reason I am sketical of your intentions is that this is a thread that was years old, and you took the trouble to search it out and respond to it right after you joined us. If it was a current thread that happened to be active when you joined, I'd be willing to think better of your intentions. Again, this is only my opinion, and I apologize if i am even remotely wrong.

Let's agree to disagree
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:50 PM   #14
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Posting of that video is not allowed.

You have duly informed the public.

No debate on it.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:57 PM   #15
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the product was released last july. so it's still a relevant discussion. the product does not eliminate jobs for locksmiths, on the contrary, it makes our job quicker and more profittable. the point of the post was to correctly inform potential readers of the published shortcomings of the product, to enable purchasers to make an informed decision prior to purchase.

that this discussion has seen fit for some contrary arguments, effectively denying people of their rights to all the facts and full product disclosure, indicates that some members of this community appear to still support the security by obscurity debate in my opinion, this does a monumental disservice to members and readers of this thread.

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