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Old 04-05-2014, 01:13 PM   #31
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But the kids were smarter, and he came out the next morning to find "One" crossed out and "Two" written in.


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Old 04-05-2014, 02:47 PM   #32
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Around here. Anyone that plants flowers or anything that can protrude over the sidewalk like that. Is considered rude. And blocking a public walkway. Your flowers are over the sidewalk, and hampering pedestrians that use that sidewalk.

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The one plant is covering a foot of the sidewalk. That is very inconsiderate of other people. Which is rude.

If the neighbors car would be blocking off the sidewalk that much. They would probably get a ticket for obstructing the sidewalk.

If you apply that here, then about 25% of the neighbors are rude and breaking the law. God forbid a branch hangs over the sidewalk.

Next time I walk the dog I'll grab some pics of other houses.

So...instead of enjoying some flowers, we are more concerned that they hang over the edge of the sidewalk?

Funny....hundreds of people walk by our house each week and we see the smiles on their faces as the look at the landscape....but the only issue we have had with damage to flowers has been 2 teenage girls. I don't think my flowers hanging over the edge of the sidewalk is the issue.

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And hopefully for Ddawg, none of those lawyers knows bout the CA audio laws that could apply to his audio recordings of people on his sidewalk.

From the Digital Media Law website. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/cali...-recording-law


If that girls parents see the vid on youtube, they could have a case. Since conversations on a sidewalk can be considered to have reasonable privacy.

While he may have given that girl something to think about. If found guilty, he could lose his police job.
I'm not the least bit worried. Besides the fact that you referenced a site that is a bit 'liberal' (translation, lots of lawyers), a key phrase in there is my get out of jail card. "Reasonable Expectation". My cameras are in plain view...we have a posted sign....and talking loud enough so that anyone standing near by can hear you does not constitute a 'reasonable expectation of privacy'....

Now, if those girls were in a huddle whispering and I used a special device to pick up their conversation....yea, I would have issues then......
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Old 04-05-2014, 02:59 PM   #33
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Picked up their voices pretty good when she wasn't talking loud. So it looks like it would pick up what someone was saying if they were sitting in your/that jeep. Or any vehicle sitting on the road at that spot.

You busted on some teenage girls. Pulled a flower or 2 maybe. They probably thought it was as harmless as you think recording someones audio without there permission is.

Since when is (lots of other people do it) an excuse to break the law.
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:07 PM   #34
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Sir....I beg to differ....lacking any covert means to record, there is no expectation of privacy.....

I kinda know what I'm talking about on this one.....

You should see what I record in my car....put two dirt bags in the back seat....leave my recorder on in the front....leave the car for a few minutes....go back and listen to it....in one case one guy said..."I hope they don't find the gat by the battery". Sure enough....there was the gun. Perfectly admissible in court.

No expectation of privacy in my company car or any building in our station....the exception being....a conversation with a lawyer. We can not record that.

Side note.....there are two people a cop can not disguise as....Clergy and a lawyer....and in some cases a doctor....
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:15 PM   #35
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Sir....I beg to differ....lacking any covert means to record, there is no expectation of privacy.....

I kinda know what I'm talking about on this one.....

You should see what I record in my car....put two dirt bags in the back seat....leave my recorder on in the front....leave the car for a few minutes....go back and listen to it....in one case one guy said..."I hope they don't find the gat by the battery". Sure enough....there was the gun. Perfectly admissible in court.

No expectation of privacy in my company car or any building in our station....the exception being....a conversation with a lawyer. We can not record that.

Side note.....there are two people a cop can not disguise as....Clergy and a lawyer....and in some cases a doctor....

The girls were not talking loud. They had reason to believe they could talk in private with out being heard.

You said hundreds of people walk by your house and smile at your flowers. Put up a big sign that says you are recording anything they say. And see if they smile, and say thank you.
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:54 PM   #36
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Did you actually say "we will find you"

You need to relax a bit...its not like they took shovels and started digging them up, causing mischief. If was actually vandalism why didn't you run out there with your gun and arrest them?
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Old 04-05-2014, 04:11 PM   #37
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The girls were not talking loud. They had reason to believe they could talk in private with out being heard.

You said hundreds of people walk by your house and smile at your flowers. Put up a big sign that says you are recording anything they say. And see if they smile, and say thank you.
Let's make this simple.....

A lot of legal decisions are based on case law....

So find me one case where someone was convicted for recording audio and video of someone on a public sidewalk in front of a private house.

You won't find any.
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Old 04-05-2014, 04:25 PM   #38
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Let's make this simple.....

A lot of legal decisions are based on case law....

So find me one case where someone was convicted for recording audio and video of someone on a public sidewalk in front of a private house.

You won't find any.
May not be any convictions. But here have been arrest for recording.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/20...blic-sidewalk/

While not a private house, the recoding was being done from a public sidewalk.

Just because a law isn't enforced, doesn't make the action right. But if you wish to justify it that way.
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Old 04-05-2014, 04:32 PM   #39
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There you go...good example BT... As an LEO how does it make you feel if Joe public starts recording your interactions?
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Old 04-05-2014, 04:35 PM   #40
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Picked up their voices pretty good when she wasn't talking loud. So it looks like it would pick up what someone was saying if they were sitting in your/that jeep. Or any vehicle sitting on the road at that spot.

You busted on some teenage girls. Pulled a flower or 2 maybe. They probably thought it was as harmless as you think recording someones audio without there permission is.

Since when is (lots of other people do it) an excuse to break the law.
Beenthere,

I mean no disrespect, and don't post often on this site but I felt the need to comment because of your lack of knowledge as it pertains to California recording laws. If your location is still correct, I can't speak to the laws in Pennsylvania, however in California PUBLIC recording is allowed - ill add a caveat 'within reason'. I will not go over every possible scenario, but will use Dawg's as an example.

Any device capable of capturing video/aduio affixed to a house or placed on private property is/are allowed in California WITHOUT the need to advise the wouldbe 'Victim' he/she is being recording. So long as the Audio/Video capturing device is NOT intentionally setup to monitor someones place/person who has a reasonable expectation of privacy.

A quick example of that; I place camera all along the eaves of my home. With one specifically pointed towards the public street (no expectation of privacy). Due to camera FOV (field of view) I happen to record 2/3 of my neighbors home. This is acceptable and me as a home owner will not have any issue should it capture something that ends up in court. NOW, if i point my camera directly at the front door of my neighbors home with the intentions of recording their in/out schedule now we have an issue. And for the sake of argument, lets just say I don't have "the intentions" in my last sentence example, I still have no VALID reason to record my neighbors home and will run in to issues should they ever be discovered.

This same rules apply to audio recording also. Dawg has gone above and beyond to inform wouldbe 'victims' he is recording by placing a sign on his property alerting them. It is evident in his video he posted the audio recording does not impede ones privacy as it is setup to only capture 'reasonable' audio while standing at his front door or on his lawn. He clearly has to raise his voice in order for the mic to pickup what he is saying... which again, is demonstrated by the lack of audio from the kids who probably spoke in a rather soft tone after being yelled at by him. Now if Dawg has the capability - which I doubt - to amplify the mics DB recording level, to purposely record any/all conversations while walking by then he may encounter some problems, but i highly doubt it would go anywhere.

A quick side-track on the recording side of things. Walking on a public sidewalk, in a highly congested neighborhood, does not offer any privacy. Lets say I was walking behind the group of juveniles within earshot. If I can hear their conversation without the use of any devices there is absolutely no expectation of privacy.

In my line of work I RECOMMEND EVERYONE invest in a high quality surveillance video (IP specifically) with capabilities of recording audio to aid in prosecutions of crimes caught on camera. I sometimes even suggest if budgets are limited, skip alarms in place of surveillance.

Last edited by jaysen; 04-05-2014 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 04-05-2014, 04:51 PM   #41
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May not be any convictions. But here have been arrest for recording.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/20...blic-sidewalk/

While not a private house, the recoding was being done from a public sidewalk.

Just because a law isn't enforced, doesn't make the action right. But if you wish to justify it that way.
Lack of information, does not mean CORRECT information. Again, not speaking on the laws in other states - Detroit in this case - but in California Penal Code 148(a) PC provides the Officers powers of arrest should their duties become obstructed or delayed by ANYONE during the course of their investigation. Again, without knowing everything from the Detroit link you posted I would assume this "photographer" was arrested because he/she was obstructing the Officers duties - OR quite frankly, and a bit scary lack of knowledge on the Officer's part (if there is a law in Detroit). In California it IS legal to record a Police Officers contact WITHOUT admonishing them that they are being recorded.

Also did you read the part that states the photographer was released with no charges? Geez, I wonder why /sarcasm

Officers have a right to obtain evidence - within legal means - so who knows if this photographer captured the "offense" on camera?

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Old 04-05-2014, 04:57 PM   #42
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A little off topic.... but close.... just curiosity....

For recording a conversation in CALI, is Cali a one or both party consent state.


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Old 04-05-2014, 05:13 PM   #43
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A little off topic.... but close.... just curiosity....

For recording a conversation in CALI, is Cali a one or both party consent state.


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'All parties' state - 632 PC
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...sectionNum=632.
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Old 04-05-2014, 05:20 PM   #44
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Beenthere,

I mean no disrespect, and don't post often on this site but I felt the need to comment because of your lack of knowledge as it pertains to California recording laws. If your location is still correct, I can't speak to the laws in Pennsylvania, however in California PUBLIC recording is allowed - ill add a caveat 'within reason'. I will not go over every possible scenario, but will use Dawg's as an example.

Any device capable of capturing video/aduio affixed to a house or placed on private property is/are allowed in California WITHOUT the need to advise the wouldbe 'Victim' he/she is being recording. So long as the Audio/Video capturing device is NOT intentionally setup to monitor someones place/person who has a reasonable expectation of privacy.

A quick example of that; I place camera all along the eaves of my home. With one specifically pointed towards the public street (no expectation of privacy). Due to camera FOV (field of view) I happen to record 2/3 of my neighbors home. This is acceptable and me as a home owner will not have any issue should it capture something that ends up in court. NOW, if i point my camera directly at the front door of my neighbors home with the intentions of recording their in/out schedule now we have an issue. And for the sake of argument, lets just say I don't have "the intentions" in my last sentence example, I still have no VALID reason to record my neighbors home and will run in to issues should they ever be discovered.

This same rules apply to audio recording also. Dawg has gone above and beyond to inform wouldbe 'victims' he is recording by placing a sign on his property alerting them. It is evident in his video he posted the audio recording does not impede ones privacy as it is setup to only capture 'reasonable' audio while standing at his front door or on his lawn. He clearly has to raise his voice in order for the mic to pickup what he is saying... which again, is demonstrated by the lack of audio from the kids who probably spoke in a rather soft tone after being yelled at by him. Now if Dawg has the capability - which I doubt - to amplify the mics DB recording level, to purposely record any/all conversations while walking by then he may encounter some problems, but i highly doubt it would go anywhere.

A quick side-track on the recording side of things. Walking on a public sidewalk, in a highly congested neighborhood, does not offer any privacy. Lets say I was walking behind the group of juveniles within earshot. If I can hear their conversation without the use of any devices there is absolutely no expectation of privacy.

In my line of work I RECOMMEND EVERYONE invest in a high quality surveillance video (IP specifically) with capabilities of recording audio to aid in prosecutions of crimes caught on camera. I sometimes even suggest if budgets are limited, skip alarms in place of surveillance.

So Cali law permits you to use your equipment to record a person's conversation in there car while they are on the street. And not a ware of the recording being made?
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Old 04-05-2014, 05:22 PM   #45
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Lack of information, does not mean CORRECT information. Again, not speaking on the laws in other states - Detroit in this case - but in California Penal Code 148(a) PC provides the Officers powers of arrest should their duties become obstructed or delayed by ANYONE during the course of their investigation. Again, without knowing everything from the Detroit link you posted I would assume this "photographer" was arrested because he/she was obstructing the Officers duties - OR quite frankly, and a bit scary lack of knowledge on the Officer's part (if there is a law in Detroit). In California it IS legal to record a Police Officers contact WITHOUT admonishing them that they are being recorded.

Also did you read the part that states the photographer was released with no charges? Geez, I wonder why /sarcasm

Officers have a right to obtain evidence - within legal means - so who knows if this photographer captured the "offense" on camera?
Yes, after the chip was removed from the iphone.

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