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Old 05-02-2010, 06:53 PM   #1
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High rise Plumbing question


***********oops, wrong section...redirected to plumbing section***********

Hi

I'm looking for some answer regarding high rise plumbing.

A leak happened in the common area which required repairs. To make a long story short. Our building manager requested he come in the morning to empty out the building's hot water tank before the repair. I was at work during the repairs when I got a call from building manager and he told me there was a leak at my suite. He said because the head of my faucet was not screwed on properly, when water was reintroduced to the system, the head flew off and flooded my suite. The loose screw he was mentioning is the screw that holds a flexible hose...similar to those used in restaurant kitchens. Now, we use this faucet for the last 6 months, under normal water pressure, with no problem. I am trying to figure out why he left or opened the faucet opened during water reintroduction because if it had been closed, the loose neck would had not affected by the high water pressure.

I have several questions:
Is it normal to have faucet fully opened when water is reintroduced from mainline? If so, for what reason?

Is the water pressure used on high rise greater due to the height the water must travel?

When water from mainline is reintroduced to the system, does this procedure create high pressure and/or vibration that would put stress on the system? Is water hammering created during this process?

Thanks!

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Last edited by roach_779; 05-03-2010 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:42 AM   #2
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High rise Plumbing question


Post a picture of what you have. What is the head?

Broken washing machine hoses are way up there in terms of flooding insurance claims.

If management messes around with the plumbing and breaks something I would expect them to take responsibility.

Yes there are stresses when water is re-introduced. Every time an air pocket reaches a bottleneck such as a partially open faucet, the speed of flow increases and when the air pocket comes to and end and water hits the bottleneck , you get a jolt.

Usually the water pressure in a high rise is maintained by having a water tank above the top floor and gravity helps. If not then there must be added pressure at ground level to get the water all the way up.

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Last edited by AllanJ; 05-03-2010 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:00 AM   #3
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High rise Plumbing question


This is not a DIY issue, moved to Off Topic
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post
Post a picture of what you have. What is the head?

Broken washing machine hoses are way up there in terms of flooding insurance claims.

If management messes around with the plumbing and breaks something I would expect them to take responsibility.

Yes there are stresses when water is re-introduced. Every time an air pocket reaches a bottleneck such as a partially open faucet, the speed of flow increases and when the air pocket comes to and end and water hits the bottleneck , you get a jolt.

Usually the water pressure in a high rise is maintained by having a water tank above the top floor and gravity helps. If not then there must be added pressure at ground level to get the water all the way up.
Thanks for the reply.

I have provided a picture of the faucet. The black ring (between solid pipe and flexible hose) is where the faucet separated. As you can see, if the building manager had the faucet shut off when water was re-introduced, the top section would had not had been affected by the high water pressure.



Is the stress created by water re-introduction called water hammer?

Thanks!
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:21 PM   #5
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High rise Plumbing question


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Originally Posted by roach_779 View Post

I have several questions:
Is it normal to have faucet fully opened when water is reintroduced from mainline? If so, for what reason?

This is not normal, all faucets and valves "should" be closed when the feed main is turned back on. What probably happened is during the drain down, the person opened the faucet to introduce air into the system to allow for a quicker drain down of the system, and forgot to close the faucet prior to re-activation.

Quote:
Is the water pressure used on high rise greater due to the height the water must travel?
This depends on MANY factors, how tall is the building? what is the service pressure from the street? what floor is your suite on? High rise buildings usually have seperate pressure zones. Usually the first couple floors are fed from street pressure, the mid-level and higher floors are boosted from a pumping system and either regulated down at each floor (in excess of 80 psi) or regulated down as a pressure zone consisting of several floors in that zone.

Quote:
When water from mainline is reintroduced to the system, does this procedure create high pressure and/or vibration that would put stress on the system? Is water hammering created during this process?
Air is compressable, while water is not, so when water is introduced back into the system with everything shut off, the water will compress the air into a smaller volume and once you open the faucet you'll get compressed air for a couple seconds, then spurts of water and more air pockets until all the air is out of the system. This does create vibration and strain on the system during the the few seconds while air is being cleared out of the pipe. Faucets and valves should always to turned on slowly after re-charging the line for this reason. This is technically not considered "water hammer" but has the same effect in straining the piping system. Water hammer is from having a high volume demand of water for a short period of time. The best example of this is a flush valve toilet in a commercial bathroom. That toilet flushes 1.6 gallons in a matter of seconds, so the water velocity goes from zero to 8 feet per second back to zero in about 5 seconds. The forces behind the water while its moving then suddenly stops creates the water hammer bang. This is why shock absorbers are usually installed on all quick closing valves and solenoids.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:13 AM   #6
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Good Info...Thanks Guys!
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:21 PM   #7
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High rise Plumbing question


The manager forgot to close the faucet after opening to help with draining system for repairs. When the water came back on he did not realize the faucet was open & unattended. Then the drain in the sink could not handle the water from the faucet & over flowed. The hose is just an excuse, because the hose is encased in a wire retainer giving it slight flexibility and retains it curve downward towards the sink. Plus you would have noticed a problem with leaking were pipe joins hose, therefore it was not loose. Bottom line plumber forgot faucet left open when water turned on. You may be at fault for having dishes in your sink blocking the drain or having no aerator to reduce water flow
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:59 PM   #8
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Thanks for the info. It's been awhile since the incident, but it's nice to know opinions say we were not at fault as the strata sided with building manager. It was a long battle with the strata, but we did proved to them they were wrong. What makes us angry was the cost we incurred during the process that was not even our fault.

Thanks all!
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:36 PM   #9
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High rise Plumbing question


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but we did proved to them they were wrong. What makes us angry was the cost we incurred during the process that was not even our fault
If you proved that it was not your fault, and they were working on the system, it must be their fault. They have accepted your arguement that yoy were blameless, thereby they are admitting guilt. You have claims for lost goods and expenses.

Sue them, you'd win

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