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Old 12-12-2012, 03:05 PM   #31
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GMO Takeover


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Originally Posted by AGWhitehouse View Post
Bueller? Been so quick with all other responses...
You made up your mind a long time ago, why do you expect people to keep wasting their time with you?

GM food may be bad and killing us all. Or it could be saving millions of lives by making food cheaper and more accessible to impoverished countries. Or probably the truth is somewhere in the middle : it's marginally more dangerous but either is or is not worth the risk. I'd love to see some overhaul on the patent aspect of all this stuff -- and not just this stuff, but in my field (computer tech) as well -- but until actual studies that can conclusively prove links to cancer come out, I'll keep wearing a non-aluminum-foil lined hat.

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Old 12-12-2012, 03:23 PM   #32
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Bueller? Been so quick with all other responses...
Well....my employer does expect me to work on 'their stuff' when I'm at work.

I'll respond in detail tonight when I can sit down with a rum & diet pepsi...
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:38 PM   #33
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You made up your mind a long time ago, why do you expect people to keep wasting their time with you?
I'm hoping you, or others, could prove me wrong. And you did on some of the finite points, but you still have not on the whole image. And I don't think talking about food (the thing our body interacts with the most aside from air & water) was a waste of time...

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...it could be saving millions of lives by making food cheaper and more accessible to impoverished countries.
I've found this to be a false statement, as you have to buy the seed/herbicide to use the seed/herbicide.

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...Or probably the truth is somewhere in the middle : it's marginally more dangerous but either is or is not worth the risk.
This is what this thread was really intended for. Risk assessment. I've listed the risks, what's some pros to balance those risks?

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I'd love to see some overhaul on the patent aspect of all this stuff -- and not just this stuff, but in my field (computer tech) as well
Highly unlikely. Market flows drive the laws. The consumer has to enact change for change to happen. Hence the whole Organic movement.

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but until actual studies that can conclusively prove links to cancer come out, I'll keep wearing a non-aluminum-foil lined hat.
I do find it fascinating that people would rather eat something, totally new and unknown, that "could" (there's no evidence saying they're actually safe) be toxic before tried-and-true healthy (100% organic).
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:55 PM   #34
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Ok, I've deleted all "troll worthy" posts....

I formulated and hope you all will help update a pros/cons list in post #1 for Round-up ready and 2,4-D Resistant GMOs...

I started this post so I could be slapped in the face for being wrong. And it worked great, hence my deletions. But, my reservations on GMOs have yet to be reversed. Only my individual factoids have been challenged, not the overall picture. So, please do respond to the pros/cons list...
Well....spent the last hour researching both the RUR and 24D stuff.

It pretty much boils down to this....a lot of "The sky is falling" without any 'real' science to back it up.

In reading about how the RUR stuff works, one of important things is that RU works by blocking an enzyme in actively growing plants only....The association to RU and increased cancers is REAL weak.....they ignore the fact that the increase in cancer cases is for the most part related to people living longer and the improved detection....people were dieing from cancer 300 years ago....we just didn't know it was cancer....

Remember the issue with Repeative Motion Injuries? It was the keyboards fault....and a lot of employers dished out a lot of money for those 'injuries'. Well....it now seems that the doctor that coined the CTS drama was wrong....the doctor that coined the phrase later admited he was wrong....in reality...repeative motion only exposed the issue...it didn't cause it....

Well....your GMO sounds like the same thing...

Sorry....but there is just not nearly enough 'facts' available for me to get worried about it. I think your chances of being 'injured' by using your cell phone or driving under power lines is much greater.

May I suggest you go to a Sushi bar...eat a buch of tuna...then go home and bask under your CFL's....but don't go outside during the day....I hear that those ultraviolet rays from the sun is a real killer.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:02 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by AGWhitehouse View Post
I'm hoping you, or others, could prove me wrong. And you did on some of the finite points, but you still have not on the whole image. And I don't think talking about food (the thing our body interacts with the most aside from air & water) was a waste of time...

I've found this to be a false statement, as you have to buy the seed/herbicide to use the seed/herbicide.

This is what this thread was really intended for. Risk assessment. I've listed the risks, what's some pros to balance those risks?

Highly unlikely. Market flows drive the laws. The consumer has to enact change for change to happen. Hence the whole Organic movement.

I do find it fascinating that people would rather eat something, totally new and unknown, that "could" (there's no evidence saying they're actually safe) be toxic before tried-and-true healthy (100% organic).
In order for it to be truly 100% organic it would have to be grown in a totally secure, controlled environment, thus shooting the cost up exponentially
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:37 AM   #36
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In order for it to be truly 100% organic it would have to be grown in a totally secure, controlled environment
huh?
Sure, if you're growing corn next to a field full of GMO corn, then that's the case. But if i'm growing heirloom variety, say, eggplant in my backyard and use absolutely no synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, insecticides, etc., then how is that not 100% organic? Not all food varieties have been made into GMOs...at least, not yet...
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:42 AM   #37
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Well....spent the last hour researching both the RUR and 24D stuff.

It pretty much boils down to this....a lot of "The sky is falling" without any 'real' science to back it up.

In reading about how the RUR stuff works, one of important things is that RU works by blocking an enzyme in actively growing plants only....The association to RU and increased cancers is REAL weak.....they ignore the fact that the increase in cancer cases is for the most part related to people living longer and the improved detection....people were dieing from cancer 300 years ago....we just didn't know it was cancer....

Remember the issue with Repeative Motion Injuries? It was the keyboards fault....and a lot of employers dished out a lot of money for those 'injuries'. Well....it now seems that the doctor that coined the CTS drama was wrong....the doctor that coined the phrase later admited he was wrong....in reality...repeative motion only exposed the issue...it didn't cause it....

Well....your GMO sounds like the same thing...

Sorry....but there is just not nearly enough 'facts' available for me to get worried about it. I think your chances of being 'injured' by using your cell phone or driving under power lines is much greater.

May I suggest you go to a Sushi bar...eat a buch of tuna...then go home and bask under your CFL's....but don't go outside during the day....I hear that those ultraviolet rays from the sun is a real killer.
I've abandoned the health approach...there isn't enough evidence for either side to say their right, and I agree that the crazies on the highway are probably more directly hazardous to my personal health.

But, I will continue on my "certified" Organic (5% non-organic matter) diet as I feel (my opinion) it is the best course for society. You vote with your dollar, and I will continue to vote for non-patented seeds. This has become strictly a vote against the monopolization of the food industry through patentable seeds as the health risks are currently negligable and unknown. Global markets are reacting to this threat by banning them, and I think it is in my future children's best interest to vote for a viable argicultural market within the U.S.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:55 AM   #38
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huh?
Sure, if you're growing corn next to a field full of GMO corn, then that's the case. But if i'm growing heirloom variety, say, eggplant in my backyard and use absolutely no synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, insecticides, etc., then how is that not 100% organic? Not all food varieties have been made into GMOs...at least, not yet...
The reason we started using pesticides in teh first place is because it's easier / cheaper than watching half your crop get eaten by pests. Are you really disputing this? Any trip to a grocery store will tell you that organic foods, ESPECIALLY 100% organic foods, can be up to several TIMES more expensive than their non-organic counterparts.

Growing food in your backyard for yourself is fine, do whatever the eff you want. We're talking about the farms that feed millions of people around the world, not your backyard garden. Do you really think we could feed 6.5 BILLION people on Earth using backyard farms?
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:26 AM   #39
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You should see the batch of letuce we have growing....they look great....still have a few bell peppers to pull off....and it looks like we are going to have another bumper crop of avacado's.....

Just be carefull moving around....lots of spiders.....(they eat bugs)
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:09 PM   #40
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huh?
Sure, if you're growing corn next to a field full of GMO corn, then that's the case. But if i'm growing heirloom variety, say, eggplant in my backyard and use absolutely no synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, insecticides, etc., then how is that not 100% organic? Not all food varieties have been made into GMOs...at least, not yet...

does it rain where you are? or do you keep the garden under cover and use distilled water
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:13 AM   #41
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does it rain where you are? or do you keep the garden under cover and use distilled water
If want to crazy about your definitions then EVERYTHING in this world is synthetic....EVERYTHING....

In concentrations below 5% I consider it negligible...so anything brought by the rains im assuming is below that threshold...
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:23 AM   #42
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The reason we started using pesticides in teh first place is because it's easier / cheaper than watching half your crop get eaten by pests. Are you really disputing this?
Please indicate where I have disputed such reality... Have you read this post? I'm talking about PATENTED SEED plants. Not the stuff your parents/grandparents had. They were first patented/released in 1996 and the amount of crop types under patent is growing and I think 2008 showed us how much corporate interest is good for the consumer.

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Any trip to a grocery store will tell you that organic foods, ESPECIALLY 100% organic foods, can be up to several TIMES more expensive than their non-organic counterparts.
That's why it's a personal choice to buy them. I look at it as the extra $$ is a vote for my position.

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Growing food in your backyard for yourself is fine, do whatever the eff you want. We're talking about the farms that feed millions of people around the world, not your backyard garden. Do you really think we could feed 6.5 BILLION people on Earth using backyard farms?
Theoretically, why couldn't you? Obviously people don't and won't, hence the large farms. But to say it couldn't isn't truthful.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:27 AM   #43
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and it looks like we are going to have another bumper crop of avacado's.....
My wife is jealous of the avocados...haha...can't really grow them around these parts.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:39 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by AGWhitehouse View Post
Please indicate where I have disputed such reality... Have you read this post? I'm talking about PATENTED SEED plants. Not the stuff your parents/grandparents had. They were first patented/released in 1996 and the amount of crop types under patent is growing and I think 2008 showed us how much corporate interest is good for the consumer.


That's why it's a personal choice to buy them. I look at it as the extra $$ is a vote for my position.


Theoretically, why couldn't you? Obviously people don't and won't, hence the large farms. But to say it couldn't isn't truthful.


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8) Patenting of seeds (life forms)
9) Monopolization of the food industry. Technologies like the "terminator gene" and "emergent sprays" could force cyclical product purchases.
10) Through monopolization into huge conglomorates comes the potential for governing body influence.
Ayuh,.... Seems to me, you just have a problem with yer preconceived notions against the legal structure of our Society of Laws...

In the on goin' growth of our Society of Laws, people have had to hire Lawyers to form corporations to protect their holdings from bein' stolen by other Lawyers, through lawsuits...

Because of the progression of our Society of Laws, now that plants can actually be Identified, genetically, patents are a Legal protection of what was created...

Corporations, are owned by People ya know,...
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:07 AM   #45
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We're talking about the farms that feed millions of people around the world, not your backyard garden. Do you really think we could feed 6.5 BILLION people on Earth using backyard farms?
Good point. we make choices/compromises/take risks. Its like driving our cars- we chance being one of the 30,000 people who will die in one in the US, but choose the risk is "worth it" to get to work/drive the kids to school. Its not as guaranteed, risk free choice. Same with feeding the world.

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