End Of World - Off Topic - Page 3 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > The Break Room > Off Topic

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-25-2011, 12:17 PM   #31
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 352
Rewards Points: 250
Default

End of World


Quote:
Originally Posted by rossfingal View Post
Money (or almost anything - I did say "almost" - Right!?!) is not the root of evil - (evil is evil).
It's what is done with it.
Too much of a good thing ..... and so on.

RF
It's what is done with it.---What about How it is Obtained??

Advertisement

Giles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 01:14 PM   #32
A Little Of Everything
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,207
Rewards Points: 1,094
Default

End of World


Quote:
Originally Posted by Giles View Post
It's what is done with it.---What about How it is Obtained??
Yep. Without a doubt, there is lots of ill-gotten gain out there. I can't help but think that Harold Camping has gotten quite a bit of it.
DrHicks is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 01:59 PM   #33
uva uvam videndo variafit
 
WirelessG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: W by God VA (bye MS )
Posts: 558
Rewards Points: 500
Default

End of World


I remember one time I ran out of beer on a Saturday night and I thought it was the end of the world.
WirelessG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 03:53 PM   #34
Learning by Doing
 
Leah Frances's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Easton, Maryland
Posts: 3,156
Rewards Points: 2,000
Blog Entries: 7
Default

End of World


Quote:
Originally Posted by Giles View Post
It's what is done with it.---What about How it is Obtained??
Cash is fungible (being of such a nature that one part or quantity may be replaced by another equal part or quantity in the satisfaction of an obligation -M-W).

IMO, money can have a questionable origin, but it doesn't have to carry it's taint forever. You can always Take the Money and do something WONDERFUL with it.
__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.
Leah Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 04:38 PM   #35
Old School
 
Willie T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Petersburg, FL Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond them.
Posts: 3,634
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

End of World


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leah Frances View Post
Cash is fungible (being of such a nature that one part or quantity may be replaced by another equal part or quantity in the satisfaction of an obligation -M-W).

IMO, money can have a questionable origin, but it doesn't have to carry it's taint forever. You can always Take the Money and do something WONDERFUL with it.
That's certainly true, yet I can't help but wonder how many times similar subjective reasoning has been used to justify, encourage or enable continued corruption. Kind of puts one in mind of The Godfather.

A church we once attended had leadership that felt very strongly that the Lottery was wrong in that it encouraged people who couldn't afford to waste their income to line up, blowing their kid's milk money on tickets.

However, when a member won a million, they had no problem with accepting $100,000 as a contribution.

It's an interesting dilemma, and one that can really stretch the definition of how honest and clearly objective we are in defining our own moral guidelines and boundaries.
__________________
"True eloquence consists in saying all that is necessary, and only that which is."
François Duc de La Rochefoucauld
Willie T

Last edited by Willie T; 05-25-2011 at 05:17 PM.
Willie T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 08:40 PM   #36
Learning by Doing
 
Leah Frances's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Easton, Maryland
Posts: 3,156
Rewards Points: 2,000
Blog Entries: 7
Default

End of World


Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
That's certainly true, yet I can't help but wonder how many times similar subjective reasoning has been used to justify, encourage or enable continued corruption. Kind of puts one in mind of The Godfather.

A church we once attended had leadership that felt very strongly that the Lottery was wrong in that it encouraged people who couldn't afford to waste their income to line up, blowing their kid's milk money on tickets.

However, when a member won a million, they had no problem with accepting $100,000 as a contribution.

It's an interesting dilemma, and one that can really stretch the definition of how honest and clearly objective we are in defining our own moral guidelines and boundaries.
I guess here's where we agree: I think that you are RESPONSIBLE for where you take the money. If you take stolen money; you don't get absolved from responsibility because you didn't steal it. You might have to give it back.

In the lottery example I see the hypocrisy. But I don't have a problem with it. The money comes from a legal (if undesirable source) why shouldn't the church take it?

Here's a hypothetical that I would be interested in your opinion....

What about working for a criminal? If you do a contracting job for a criminal? Are you taking tainted money? What is your responsibility to inquire about customer's source of income? Should a contractor turn down jobs from criminals? If so, then what about bank executives?
__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.
Leah Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 08:53 PM   #37
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,466
Rewards Points: 2,580
Default

End of World


Quote:
What about working for a criminal? If you do a contracting job for a criminal? Are you taking tainted money? What is your responsibility to inquire about customer's source of income? Should a contractor turn down jobs from criminals? If so, then what about bank executives?
LMAO! Amen sister.
__________________
XXX
Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 09:44 PM   #38
Old School
 
Willie T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Petersburg, FL Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond them.
Posts: 3,634
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

End of World


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leah Frances View Post
I guess here's where we agree: I think that you are RESPONSIBLE for where you take the money. If you take stolen money; you don't get absolved from responsibility because you didn't steal it. You might have to give it back.

In the lottery example I see the hypocrisy. But I don't have a problem with it. The money comes from a legal (if undesirable source) why shouldn't the church take it?

Here's a hypothetical that I would be interested in your opinion....

What about working for a criminal? If you do a contracting job for a criminal? Are you taking tainted money? What is your responsibility to inquire about customer's source of income? Should a contractor turn down jobs from criminals? If so, then what about bank executives?
That's really pretty easy. My ethics and morals aren't circumstantially or situationally derived. They have been developed over a lot of years and many diverse experiences. And they are based upon some pretty concrete principles.

No, I'm not talking about "The Bible says this or that, so that's what ya gotta do". What I mean is the way I choose to live my life and how I want to be both known and remembered.

I don't think it's too hard to guess I'm a Christian. But I almost detest religion and the rules people have built into that.

Years ago there was a big movement patterned on the initials, WWJD. Bracelets, signs, "T" shirts... all emblazoned with those letters that expressed the sentiment "What would Jesus do?"

Well, much of that has been forgotten by the adults who embraced that thought as teens. But it has somehow stuck with me. It wasn't a rule or a doctrine that looked good on paper. It was simply a plain question that I found could be used in any circumstance I encountered in life... anytime.

I still ask it several times a week these days.

Do I always respond with what I feel is the ideal reaction? Of course not. But I still apply the principle when my brain is in gear, (or my head is out of my butt ), and it works pretty well.

So, to specifically address some of your questions....... like the first one, "What about working for a criminal? If you do a contracting job for a criminal? Are you taking tainted money?"

This may be difficult for you to understand, but there is no "IF" to it.

Of course you can only go by what you know. And if I knew a person was an active criminal, it's really too simple. I wouldn't be working for them... IF I KNEW IT.

If I didn't know it, and never found out, well it's kind of silly to be talking about whether or not the green dollar bills he handed me had blood stains on them. As we both agree, printed paper money is just a medium of exchange. It's playing childish "what if" word games to engage in that sort of speculating. I wouldn't expect that you are asking anything like that.

But, if I did know who the person was, and what his lifestyle was, it isn't a question for me. I simply would not be working for them.

Have I worked for criminals somewhere in the past? Probably. But not consciously.

Second question: "What is your responsibility to inquire about customer's source of income?"

Basically, none... unless there is some reason to suspect that they are not on the up and up.

Next one:
"Should a contractor turn down jobs from criminals?"
NO, not if it doesn't matter to him/her. Now, should I turn down a job from an active criminal?

The answer to that is, "Yes" because it violates some of the principles I have set myself to try and live by.

Last:
"If so, then what about bank executives?"

Not sure what this one is asking? Is it your implication that all bank executives are criminals? I'm sure some are, and some aren't... just like bus drivers, cooks, candlestick makers, and preachers.

I think that takes care of the questions.

But did you notice that I have twice mentioned ACTIVE criminals? Many people say that if a person has committed crimes, they are a criminal. I don't subscribe to that narrow view of humanity.

A few years ago I did a remodel job for a man I knew had been in prison for multiple crimes. But I know the man he is trying to be today. Am I positive that he no longer does anything illegal?

No. Of course not.

But I do feel I am accurate in my assessment of him as I view him today.

That's all any of us can go by. What our hearts and our consciences tell us. And a lot of that comes for me by simply asking "WWJD?"
__________________
"True eloquence consists in saying all that is necessary, and only that which is."
François Duc de La Rochefoucauld
Willie T

Last edited by Willie T; 05-25-2011 at 09:49 PM.
Willie T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 09:56 PM   #39
Old School
 
Willie T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Petersburg, FL Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond them.
Posts: 3,634
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

End of World


Oh, I missed one.
Quote:
In the lottery example I see the hypocrisy. But I don't have a problem with it. The money comes from a legal (if undesirable source) why shouldn't the church take it?
Again, this is easy to answer. They have no business taking that money after they have stood up and publicly made known that they felt the source was something their members should not engage in.
__________________
"True eloquence consists in saying all that is necessary, and only that which is."
François Duc de La Rochefoucauld
Willie T

Last edited by Willie T; 05-25-2011 at 10:03 PM.
Willie T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 10:27 PM   #40
Learning by Doing
 
Leah Frances's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Easton, Maryland
Posts: 3,156
Rewards Points: 2,000
Blog Entries: 7
Default

End of World


Willie T - I am glad you understand that I am not arguing with you, I'm enjoying this spirited discourse.

WWJD - Not a bad way to do things. I can always respect a moral compass.

This may be difficult for you to understand, but there is no "IF" to it.

Of course you can only go by what you know. And if I knew a person was an active criminal, it's really too simple. I wouldn't be working for them... IF I KNEW IT.

If I didn't know it, and never found out, well it's kind of silly to be talking about whether or not the green dollar bills he handed me had blood stains on them. As we both agree, printed paper money is just a medium of exchange. It's playing childish "what if" word games to engage in that sort of speculating. I wouldn't expect that you are asking anything like that.


You're right the 'ifs' and the expectation that a person investigate every client is silly. But that's sort of my point. There is no difference in the money - it's all green right?

The only difference is your own perspective and knowledge.

This is the part I find REALLY really interesting: where or when or who is the point where you draw the line? I think the answer to this question is very personal and that there isn't only one right answer. That's my point about the 'bank executive'. In some real ways I think that some of the wall-street-bandits are WAY worse than the so-called-common-criminal.

And, on reflection I realize I have knowingly done business with criminals. I am sure I have employed people who were breaking immigration laws. I didn't have specific knowledge of it... but is there really a difference between being pretty sure and knowing for sure?

For me, the one thing that I believe for certain, is that ill-gotten-gains can be redeemed by doing good with them.
__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.
Leah Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 11:00 PM   #41
Old School
 
Willie T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Petersburg, FL Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond them.
Posts: 3,634
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

End of World


Quote:
This is the part I find REALLY really interesting: where or when or who is the point where you draw the line? I think the answer to this question is very personal and that there isn't only one right answer.
Now, I too think this is REALLY interesting. In fact, I think this is the crux of this issue.

Because, individually, there IS only one right answer. And yes, it is personal for each of us. And therein lies the rub.

It has been said if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.

If you or I or anyone has set no standards for ourselves then it is true that we understand no where or when or who. We are much like a ship with no rudder, no compass, moral or otherwise. Drifting, with no real direction or purpose, and no definitive way to steer such a course even if we envisioned one. Heading one way today, and who knows what direction tomorrow.

We may say "I will not steal". Or "I won't commit adultery". Or........ "I will steal". Or "I will commit adultery". Or... "Maybe I will or will not steal". Or "Maybe I will or won't commit adultery". Where does it stop? It doesn't if we set no standards and live up to them. We will have a tendency to interject "EXCEPT when and if this or that happens" in there somewhere. And that makes a total mockery of our morality.

I make no pretense of trying to set any limits or levels for anyone else. I DO expect certain things from others who claim they follow the same teachings as I do. Because they claim to have adopted the same following I chose. But I don't expect these things of anyone else not so inclined.

What I DO expect is for a person to live up to whatever they have said is the way they feel life should be lived. If they say there are no limits... fine. I will regard them as they have asked to be regarded. They will merit little more trust in my eyes than something like a rattlesnake.

But if a person says "I am moral in my own way", I'd expect to at least be informed of what that way is so I can know whether or not to trust them around my children.

Where or when or who you draw the line is your business. But DO we draw any lines? And if we do....... are they real? Or are they just convenient lip service till something occurs in life that gives us the self-assumed liberty to ignore them?

And then you have the problem of having to accept the 'interesting' ideas everyone else happens to come up with. Suppose we say that whatever a person feels is OK is something the rest of us have an obligation to honor. Well whether we like it or not, we have just condoned ANY lifestyle whatsoever. Even Pedophilia.

Wait a minute, you say.... "Only if it doesn't hurt anyone else". Well, in a world with no standards, who gets to say what does and what doesn't hurt someone else? Certainly not you or me. That would be violating someone's rights somewhere. So, the perpetrator gets to decide for himself. He is the only one who CAN... Or should I say, the only one who has the right to decide that.

Gets real sticky, doesn't it?
__________________
"True eloquence consists in saying all that is necessary, and only that which is."
François Duc de La Rochefoucauld
Willie T

Last edited by Willie T; 05-26-2011 at 10:37 AM.
Willie T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 07:06 AM   #42
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: As always..beside myself.
Posts: 4,226
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

End of World


Willie T: I like you
creeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 08:25 AM   #43
Mod
 
kwikfishron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kansas (NCK)
Posts: 7,811
Rewards Points: 2,526
Default

End of World


Tornadoes in California.

Maybe there is something to all of this.
__________________
A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words
Especially In The DIY Chatroom
kwikfishron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 08:35 AM   #44
Old School
 
Willie T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Petersburg, FL Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond them.
Posts: 3,634
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

End of World


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikfishron View Post
Tornadoes in California.

Maybe there is something to all of this.
Maybe...........

IMO the basic scripture Camping looked at has never been in question... only his interpretation of it.
__________________
"True eloquence consists in saying all that is necessary, and only that which is."
François Duc de La Rochefoucauld
Willie T
Willie T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 10:50 AM   #45
A Little Of Everything
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,207
Rewards Points: 1,094
Default

End of World


Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
Maybe...........

IMO the basic scripture Camping looked at has never been in question... only his interpretation of it.
I've read quite a bit of his stuff. The guy is flat-out nuts - especially what he does with numbers & math.

Advertisement

DrHicks is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the best paint in the world? Majid Painting 30 06-23-2012 01:28 PM
A new theory on how us and the world came to be baby327nd Off Topic 100 05-22-2011 05:06 PM
window world? analogmusicman Remodeling 7 07-11-2010 08:31 AM
If Women Controlled The World.... gma2rjc Off Topic 8 04-13-2009 02:51 PM
World of Wheels Video - Chicago 2007 head_dunce Automotive Repairs 0 01-30-2007 08:49 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts