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Old 09-17-2010, 09:08 AM   #31
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Buying Wholesale


What if something goes bad well after installation is done. Let's say the coil develops a leak and needs to be replaced after a year or two.

As long as the repair at that time is being done by an "authorized" contractor then wouldn't Goodman warranty the part based on the serial number of the system?

How would Goodman know the system was bought online, installed by a DIY'er, etc.

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Old 09-17-2010, 11:14 AM   #32
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What if something goes bad well after installation is done. Let's say the coil develops a leak and needs to be replaced after a year or two.

As long as the repair at that time is being done by an "authorized" contractor then wouldn't Goodman warranty the part based on the serial number of the system?

How would Goodman know the system was bought online, installed by a DIY'er, etc.
they know, they just know

I suspect it is known who a particular serial numbered unit is sold to or through. That and the required registration should allow them to determine who sold the product and if it was an internet sale.

From the warranty, it doesn't required an authorized installer or repairman to do the work unless the unit is purchased over the internet or such as noted in their warranty. They only actual statement about a repair tech is the parts must be returned by a state licensed or certified person.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:46 AM   #33
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If an internet sales site is doing good numbers I doubt any mfg is going to go out of their way to track a part all the way down to the end user just to make sure it was not an internet sale.

One site guarantees to cover warranty parts for the HO. HO has to pay for the replacement part pending verification of defective part. Then gets refund if part is NG.
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:04 PM   #34
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Manufacturers in general - be it cars or laptops - can usually track down the consumer without issue when doing stuff like factory recalls. I'd imagine looking up that same info upon receiving a warranty claim is the same deal.

And yeah, I'm going to have to agree with the contractor side of this discussion. I'm only slightly more informed than those young, clueless homeowners in that new Lowe's commercial, but I did most of my reno myself, passed inspection, and gained a lot of respect for people who do this for a living.

That said, I think it's important to note that it's not necessarily the contractors who are making more money these days; it's the insurance companies and the g-man. Health and liability insurance are stupid expensive. Taxes are stupid expensive. Come to think of it, pretty much all overhead is stupid expensive. The solution is to assign blame with your votes, not by funneling all your cash into yet another bloated corporation. (ie Home Depot.)

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Old 09-17-2010, 12:26 PM   #35
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Serial numbers on equipment are traceable to the wholesaler who than sell it to a contractor. The serial number is listed on the buying contractor's invoice.
In case of a product recall the wholesaler will be notified by the factory who in turn tells his contractor client base. It is up to the contractor to notify his customer who bought from him.


But for a small part...I doubt they would investigate it. Too time consuming.
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:50 PM   #36
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Could you not check the recall on CPSC?
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:44 PM   #37
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I'm sorry to ruffle the feathers of a few contractors. I'm not advertising for anybody. My point was to help those on this forum realize they can save alot of money. A few contractors brought up warranty. The distributor told me that since the heat pump was purchased from an authorized distributor both they and Amana would stand behind the warranty as long as it was installed according to manufacturers directions. So that's a non issue. The contractor who I am using showed me his EPA card that qualifies him to handle the freon. He works as one of the lead guys for one of the big HVAC companies in my area. This is a side job for him. But he is as qualified I'm sure as any on here who have questioned his ability. He provided references and I did check them out.

DIY forums exist because we as homeowners have gotten tired of being way overcharged for the services of tradesman. Please spare me the "You're paying for knowledge and experience" baloney. Its a heat pump install not brain surgery. The consumer can, with a little shopping, save the mark-up that contractor makes, which can be 50% or more. And if you go to craig or angie you can find a good contractor for the install and you will save at least half probably more on the labor. Do the math...the quote you just received from that contractor will be half, with a little research on your part.

I'm sorry guys but 12 months of tech scool training doesn't qualify you to make an hourly wage similar to what I pay my physician. Quite frankly this would be a non issue if you guys didn't overcharge the public for so long. I wish I could post on here what I paid for the heat pump so the readers could see what Im talking about.
You are right. Tech school alone does not qualify a tech to make as much as an MD.

But we are not techs. We are business owners who wish to make a profit and not an hourly wage. An HVAC contractor and an MD assume the same financial risk opening his doors for business.

If both provide a quality service their businesses will expand and the financial benefit they derive for their efforts should and will grow proportionate to the quality care and service they deliver.

That being said, why would you begrudge an HVAC owner his due?


And please, this is really what I don't understand you, explain how it is you feel the entire industry is over charging the public?

If a person can repair their own unit I say Bravo.

But it seems to me you just think the trade of HVAC is not a legitimate occupational path and is an enterprise deserving only of public scorn.

I spend more time learning new technologies to provide the most modern up to date service and equipment than I some times do servicing...as does an MD. I have a state issued unlimited license, as does as MD, I have to face a board of my Peers in case of negligence on my part or one of my techs, as does an MD, I carry a massive insurance burden, as does an MD,
I am board certified by my peers and higher for new technologies, as is an MD.

And yes, unless you live in Padonk, we business owner have degrees ranging from finance to master's in business. Most techs in large populated areas graduate college hvac programs with associates and bachelors of science degrees.

I would call your attention to Ferris state in MI. They are the premier university for turn out of the best HVACers in the country.

And most of them stay in MI. Giving us the some of the top HVAC talent in the country

So to answer your objection that an HVAC tech or business should not make the same salary as an MD I SAY WHY NOT?

AT LEAST WE STILL MAKE HOUSE CALLS!
DOES YOUR DOCTOR??????

Let's talk about side jobs: OK, every tech at one time or another has moon lighted. They charge you less. But just like that MD you mentioned, there are the skilled techs and the mediocre techs. The skilled techs will give you a great job that meets code and makes your home more comfortable than you have ever been.

The mediocre tech, not so good. Won't pull a permit, workmanship is lacking, might even kick your dog if he snoops around him.

OK, either way you got a new system despite which tech did it.

It's six months later. You still have a warranty of one year labor and the parts have a five year warranty.You get a break down in -10*f weather.

Your installing tech is working his full time job. Your house is cold and the tech won't answer your call 'til after quitting time. But the cold snap has him working over time.

It's seven PM, the house is fifty degrees and the tech is still not answering his cell phone.

This is where it get's interesting. You call the tech's workplace demanding his boss call your installing tech to come fix your furnace. And you hear pitiless laughter as you are hung up on.

So folks that is the ugly side of using side jobbers.

Good luck to all who would install their own equipment.
We pros will be available for advice in the DIY hvac forum.
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:19 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post

This is where it get's interesting. You call the tech's workplace demanding his boss call your installing tech to come fix your furnace. And you hear pitiless laughter as you are hung up on.
Thatís assuming the tech even still works there.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:09 PM   #39
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Thatís assuming the tech even still works there.

Instead of posting non relevant statements why don't you address the answers I posted about your unfounded negative comments about the hvac industry overcharging the public (the phrasing you used accused we contractors of over charging everyone in the US).

Also you did not answer the reason HVACer are not deserving of high wages?
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:30 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
Instead of posting non relevant statements why don't you address the answers I posted about your unfounded negative comments about the hvac industry overcharging the public (the phrasing you used accused we contractors of over charging everyone in the US).

Also you did not answer the reason HVACer are not deserving of high wages?
I think it’s time to put your glasses on, change those bloody contacts or something. Ya didn’t hear any negativity out of me.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:42 PM   #41
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I think itís time to put your glasses on, change your contacts or something. Ya didnít negativity out of me.
My glasses are fine .
You busted on my industry and made some statements
that I politely answered.

Now I ask you in a gentlemanly way to substantiate those responses concerning
your objection to an HVACer making high wages and the really objectionable accusation that all contractors charge too much.

Please give me some reasonable facts to back up what you said.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:50 PM   #42
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Shake the sleep out of your eyes, hvaclover. You just might be barking at the wrong person.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:59 PM   #43
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Neither warranty applies to, and no warranty is offered by Goodman on, any unit ordered
over the Internet, by telephone or other electronic means unless the dealer selling the unit
over the Internet, by telephone or other electronic means is also the installing contractor for
the unit.
Car dealers try to invalidate warranty even when the consumer has the right to warranty coverage, like aftermarket intake invalidating warranty claim related to transmission failure. It's the dealer's burden to prove the intake was the cause of transmission failure. You may have to fight for it, but it doesn't mean the warranty is void.

As for the above, it's very easy to get around. Jot down what you talk on the phone. Write out a purchasing contract, sign it, enclose a check, and MAIL IT by US Mail, so that the order was actually placed by paper means

I as a DIYer and a savvy shopper praise the Tirerack sales model and despite the "traditional business" style of selling HVAC equipment. You can hire a contractor of whatever brand you want to buy to make a sizing selection and model type. Then, you can place an order for that model, and have relevant installs performed by licensed HVAC contractor.

Carrying the furnace to attic that's difficult to get to is something you can do yourself or hire a mover and you'll save a lot not paying hourly rate of expensive HVAC contractor. You then, call the relevant brands dealer, get hourly service rate and have it installed as an hourly service.

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Old 09-17-2010, 04:00 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
My glasses are fine .
You busted on my industry and made some statements
that I politely answered.

Now I ask you in a gentlemanly way to substantiate those responses concerning
your objection to an HVACer making high wages and the really objectionable accusation that all contractors charge too much.

Please give me some reasonable facts to back up what you said.
kwikfishron even gave you a kudos click on that lengthy diatribe you wrote. You might want to review the posts to dertermine who actually wrote the comments you are subscribing to ron.
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:03 PM   #45
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Quote:
HVAC_NW;502939]Car dealers try to invalidate warranty even when the consumer has the right to warranty coverage, like aftermarket intake invalidating warranty claim related to transmission failure. It's the dealer's burden to prove the intake was the cause of transmission failure. You may have to fight for it, but it doesn't mean the warranty is void.
Actually, I can understand the claim that an after market intake could have detrimental effects on a trans. I would suppose the manuf would have to have some reasonable justification for their claim but I do see it as a possibility in certain situations.

Quote:
As for the above, it's very easy to get around. Jot down what you talk on the phone. Write out a purchasing contract, sign it, enclose a check, and MAIL IT by US Mail, so that the order was actually placed by paper means
no problems there.

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