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Old 09-16-2010, 05:01 PM   #16
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Personally. I'm not whizzed that you bought your own unit. Or hired a side job guy to install it.

He is not a contractor though. he is simply a side job guy that got a contractor/handymans license. In PA it just takes a fee, and proof of insurance to get it..

No idea why you think that a company should do a job at a loss. Yes, a loss if they try to meet a side job guys prices. Your side job guy, gets his vacation pay from his regular employer. His regular employer also has to pay into SSI for him. Has health insurance on him. pays him for holidays, etc.

There is a lot more to a companies price. then just working for labor.

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Old 09-16-2010, 05:11 PM   #17
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PS: An SSZ is a Goodman unit, not an Amana unit.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:19 PM   #18
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My intention was not come in here and bash contractors. But contractors bashed me so I just defended my actions. I guess we will just have to disagree on certain things. Being in business I realize there are expenses other than labor. I just don't think there should be as wide a gap thats all. And yes, his other employer does pay ssi, vacation,etc. But the $6000 guy was a two man company so his expenses were not that much different. All three guys told me it would take 4 to 5 hours to do. $1100 for 5 hours of work is even high but $2400 or $4000 is just downright absurd. I don't think that much can be explained away as added ssi, vacation pay.

Hopefully, I saved someone some money. Out of curiosity beenthere, what would you charge for the job. Install only...And complete with system as described. If you want to factor travel time, I live in the Langhorne area.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:24 PM   #19
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I don't know. One of the contactors has ssz, one has ssx. Both said the unit would be Amana. The distributor said it was Amana. It was ss something, I don't have his quote in front of me but it said Amana on his sheet. I dont know why the diference in #'s but they all told me amana.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:33 PM   #20
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first. A 4 hour job can be priced on 4 hours. Seems employee's don't stay long if you only have 4 hours work for them, and only pay them for 4 hours. Its very hard to schedule another 4 hour job the same day. So a 4 hour job has to be priced for the entire day. Along with mony added for warranty repair. Employee's won't work for free. even though the company isn't getting paid.

HVAC is a lot different then other types of industries.

Not having seen your place. Without travel time. Around 6 grand.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:35 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Savyconsumer View Post
I don't know. One of the contactors has ssz, one has ssx. Both said the unit would be Amana. The distributor said it was Amana. It was ss something, I don't have his quote in front of me but it said Amana on his sheet. I dont know why the diference in #'s but they all told me amana.
Yours is a goodman. You can go to Goodman's wevsit and see for yourself.

Lots of contractor tell people that a goodman is an Amana.

Next, an Amana Distintions is a relabeled Goodman. But, Amana does have their own units.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:37 PM   #22
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does the side guy have Liability Insurance if something goes wrong ??


This site is intended to help folkes repair things themselves that's why it's called DIY. It's not a Whining site to complain about what someone charges you or about what a ligit contractor charges for his / her time & knowledge. I don't like some of the prices I've paid for stuff, but, I don't get on a site & Whine about it
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:45 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Savyconsumer View Post



I'm sorry guys but 12 months of tech scool training doesn't qualify you to make an hourly wage similar to what I pay my physician. Quite frankly this would be a non issue if you guys didn't overcharge the public for so long. I wish I could post on here what I paid for the heat pump so the readers could see what Im talking about.
Where do you live? I might have to move if a tech straight out of school makes the same as a MD. LOL

Now on to reality. That mark up pays the owner a small percentage . The rest pays for the sales people, the installers , the sevice techs, the dispatcher, the billing department, the vehicles, the big equiptment, the utilities, part of the employees heath insurance, gas for the vehicles, SS tax, unemployment insurance, workmans comp insurance, vehicle insurance, the permits and inspection fees, the contractor's license fees, the mortgage on the building and a host of other expences. Then they have thieving installers "borrowing " the tools and vans to do side jobs. HMMM I wonder why the price has such a mark up?

Sorry for the rant guys. Think I'll take a vacation from giving all the free advice for a while.

Last edited by Marty S.; 09-16-2010 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:23 PM   #24
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Ken Mac - I wasn't whining I'm sorry it came across that way. I was trying to help others by pointing out how they can save a ton of money. Based on the comments here, I have hit a nerve. It just appears the contractors don't want the public to know just how much they are making. Six grand. Minus 2150 for equip cost = $3850. OK been I'll go 8 hours - lead tech $25hrx8=$200x2for ssi, benefits etc=$400. Helper - $15hrx8=$120 x2 for ssi, benefits, etc=$240. We're now at $3200 profit after equipment cost and labor. How can that possibly be justified? It can't.

I will tell you that the price I am paying is, admittedly very low. But 6000 is outrageous and unfair. Its like 20 years ago when opthamologists had a stranglehold on contact lenses. We paid over $20 per pair for soft contacts. When mail order happened and then internet sales, prices dropped to $13 for a box of six pair. You hvac guys will soon have to get your prices in line too. Thats all Im saying.

Not to offend but its just the cycle. Heck you can have good quality laser eye surgery today for $700/eye. Ten years ago it was $5000. Wake up and smell the Mrs Folgers guys. Sites like this make us smarter and more knowledgeable shoppers.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty S. View Post

Sorry for the rant guys. Think I'll take a vacation from giving all the free advice for a while.
No apologies required IMO. You are right. People that hire side job Johnny simply do not understand that a contractor has a lot of overhead that side job Johnny doesn't have to pay as well as other reasons things cost more from them.

Hey Savyconsumer, see what happens when you write the check to his contracting company and not him personally. I bet there is no contracting company. That means he probably doesn't have insurance nor is he bonded. Want to guess what happens if he gets hurt while doing the work at your house?

Yes, you might just get to pay for his injuries.

Quote:
And if I have to wait a little bit longer for him to answer a warranty call should I have one
warranty? You bought the unit as carry out. What makes you think he is going to provide any warranty? As long as his install is good, his job is done.

You might get warranty parts from the manufacturer (although not sure of that even) but the installer has no reason to provide warranty service to you.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:55 PM   #26
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lead tech $25hrx8=$200x2for ssi, benefits etc=$400.
dang, I'm an electrician (not a contractor btw) in an area with a low cost of living (and due to that, the wages are generally lower than many other areas of the country) and I make almost twice that.

Quote:
Helper - $15hrx8=$120 x2 for ssi, benefits, etc=$240.
You do realize that minimum wage is $7.25, right? Then add on health insurance, vacation pay, pension money, whatever other bene's the boss pays. You apparently have no realization of what it costs to employ a person with some training.

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We're now at $3200 profit after equipment cost and labor. How can that possibly be justified? It can't.
well, let's start with deductions from that "profit".

workers comp insurance, vehicle purchase, vehicle maintenance, vehicle costs (fuel, insurance), liability insurance, building for the business, insurance for the building, secretary, utilities for the building, estimator, tools, advertising, and many other costs.

you can try to justify side job johnny's price all you want but the bottom line; he is taking short cuts in running his "business". For some reason you believe he will not take the same short cuts when working on your AC. Most people are sadly mistaken on that point.


So, what do you do for a living Savyconsumer?
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:58 PM   #27
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Not going to drop my prices... I can sit at home in the A/C & Heat & go broke. I ain't going to lower my prices , work my butt off & go broke
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:46 PM   #28
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We're now at $3200 profit after equipment cost and labor. How can that possibly be justified? It can't.
PROFIT?

I thought you said you knew about business. If you think thats profit. You don't.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:48 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by nap View Post
Tirerack makes considerable money for it's owners.

Yes, each person that touches a product is going to make some money on the deal. It really doesn't make any difference if it is charged as material or labor. It is the total that is of concern and anybody that thinks they are going to get something for free doesn't really understand why the prices charged are what they are.

Yes, you can do a self install and save a lot of money. Heck, I can build my own house and save a lot of money but for the majority of the people, that is not a reality. and to the self installers; make absolutely sure about the warranty, or lack of because it wasn't installed by an approved installer. Don't forget that when that "side job Johnny" installation fails and smokes your unit, you are starting at ground zero again. Simple figure that all the money you spent gets to be spent again.

I'm sure Magnusson-Moss applies here. I bet there are cases where consumers are simply denied warranty over some technicality, but would have won if he fought hard enough. Despite this act, its still common for auto manufacturer to deny claims based on having it worked on other than the dealer or using aftermarket parts. If you DIY install an A/C, but the condenser motor fails, I don't know if that's a legally valid cause to void the warranty.
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
If you DIY install an A/C, but the condenser motor fails, I don't know if that's a legally valid cause to void the warranty
Quote:
Neither warranty continues after the unit is removed from the location where it was originally
installed.
Neither warranty applies to, and no warranty is offered by Goodman on, any unit ordered
over the Internet, by telephone or other electronic means unless the dealer selling the unit
over the Internet, by telephone or other electronic means is also the installing contractor for
the unit.
Regardless of time of registration, the warranty period begins on the date of the original
installation. Where a product is installed in a newly constructed home; the date of installation
is the date the homeowner purchased the home from the builder. If that date cannot be
verified, the warranty period begins three months after the month of manufacture (indicated
by the first four digits of the serial number (yymm)).
As its only responsibility, and your only remedy, Goodman will furnish (i) a replacement part,
without charge for the part only, to replace any part that is found to be defective due to
workmanship or materials under normal use and maintenance , or (ii) for a compressor that
fails while covered by the lifetime warranty, a new, equivalent outdoor condensing unit.
For warranty credit, the defective part must be returned to an Amana® heating and air
conditioning products distributor by a state certified or licensed contractor. Any part
replaced pursuant to this warranty is warranted only for the unexpired portion of the
warranty term applying to the original part.
These warranties do not apply to labor, freight, or any other cost associated with the
service, repair or operation of the unit.
These warranties are in lieu of all other express warranties.
I do not see them attempting to invalidate the warranty for such. The warranty does state that the defective part must be returned by a state licensed or certified contractor though.

They do (and rightfully so) rule the warranty invalid if the problem is due to improper maintenance, use, operation, or servicing.
As well as damage or repairs as a result of faulty installation or operation.

It appears they do not cover labor at all so I seriously doubt a side job johnny is going to provide free labor even on a material warranty situation.

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