Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Community > Off Topic

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-07-2011, 08:52 PM   #1
Wire Chewer
 
Red Squirrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,211
Share |
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


I ran across this on the internet, kinda interesting to say the least.
Attached Thumbnails
Asbestos saves lives!-wtcasbestos.jpg  

Red Squirrel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Red Squirrel For This Useful Post:
Scuba_Dave (01-08-2011)
Old 01-08-2011, 10:30 AM   #2
Member
 
Handy Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 185
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Squirrel View Post
kinda interesting to say the least.
Granted. And I imagine it will receive rave reviews here at the Asbestos Preservation Society.

__________________
Actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea.
Handy Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 10:35 AM   #3
Experienced
 
Jackofall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,822
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


"the act is not culpable unless the mind is guilty".....nice one
__________________
When its all said and done there is usually more said than done
Jackofall1 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jackofall1 For This Useful Post:
Handy Vinny (01-15-2011)
Old 01-14-2011, 03:54 PM   #4
Mold!! Let's kill it!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,842
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


And it's an all natural material. None of that pesky dangerous man made stuff in it.
Maintenance 6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 04:27 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


Asbestos used to do everything it said it could. Unfortunately it caused as much health problems as it did fire prevention (containment).
In its day, nothing could beat it.
jtoal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 08:31 PM   #6
uva uvam videndo variafit
 
WirelessG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: W by God VA (bye MS )
Posts: 558
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoal View Post
Asbestos used to do everything it said it could. Unfortunately it caused as much health problems as it did fire prevention (containment).
In its day, nothing could beat it.

Really? Anyone with a a vacuum cleaner power chord can beat anyone or anything.

random thought
WirelessG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 08:33 PM   #7
Mod
 
kwikfishron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kansas (NCK)
Posts: 7,294
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoal View Post
Asbestos used to do everything it said it could. Unfortunately it caused as much health problems as it did fire prevention (containment).
In its day, nothing could beat it.
True story J.
Itís kind of like food, if it taste good itís probably bad for you.
__________________
A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words
Especially In The DIY Chatroom
kwikfishron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 08:36 PM   #8
Mod
 
kwikfishron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kansas (NCK)
Posts: 7,294
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessG View Post
Really? Anyone with a a vacuum cleaner power chord can beat anyone or anything.

random thought
What?
__________________
A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words
Especially In The DIY Chatroom
kwikfishron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 11:10 AM   #9
Member
 
Handy Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 185
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


While there is nothing inherently wrong with being an asbestos proponent, you have to realize that the orthodox view of asbestos is that it is extremely detrimental to human health. It has been known and proven to cause a variety of different serious health problems since the early decades of the 20th-century. It began being heavily regulated in the 1970’s and was almost banned entirely in the 1980’s.

So, to say that asbestos has its good points is fine, but to minimize or dismiss its health risks is entirely irrational, as it requires ignoring the well-documented and deeply-researched findings of medical science.

The burden of proof is on asbestos proponents to demonstrate that its hazards are negligible—not on medical scientists or the EPA whose positions on asbestos are entirely predicated on empirical, not anecdotal, evidence.

Celebrate asbestos all you want, and feel free to carry on with your talk about how useful it was. Indeed, it would be hard to argue against its advantages as an additive in building materials. But be advised that it is extremely irresponsible to minimize and/or dismiss its health risks on DIY forums.
__________________
Actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea.

Last edited by Handy Vinny; 01-15-2011 at 11:28 AM.
Handy Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 06:29 PM   #10
Pro Flooring Installer
 
rusty baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 3,816
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


. Why did the courts overturn the ban on asbestos?
The comprehensive, 57-page opinion written by Judge Jerry E. Smith, states that the Court "conclude(d) that EPA has presented insufficient evidence to justify its asbestos ban." The Court stated that its conclusion was based on "the failure of EPA to consider all necessary evidence" and "to give adequate weight to statutory language requiring it to promulgate the least burdensome, reasonable regulation required to protect the environment adequately."
The Court found EPA's support for a ban under the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) deficient in several major ways:
  • First, after noting that a ban - "the death penalty alternative" - is "the most burdensome of all possible" rules under TSCA, the Court held EPA had failed "to explore in more than a cursory way the less burdensome alternative to a total ban." EPA failed, the Court stated, "to calculate the cost and benefits" of "each regulatory option," as it is required to do to determine whether "any other regulation - would achieve an acceptable level of risk." The Court explained that EPA had not made such calculations "as it believed there was no asbestos exposure level for which the risk of injury or death was zero," but that this Agency assumption was incorrect as "reducing risk to zero was not the task Congress set for the EPA in enacting TSCA."
  • Second, the Court found EPA had failed "to evaluate the harm that will result from increased use of substitute products," many of which, the Court noted, contained carcinogens. As a result, said the Court, the ban "actually may increase the risk of injury Americans face."
  • Third, The Court held EPA had failed by "basically ignoring the cost side of the TSCA equation" to meet the statutory requirements to "balance the cost of its regulation against their benefits." The Court noted that "EPA's willingness to argue (for) spending $23.7 million to save less than one-third of a life reveals that its economic review of its regulations, as required by TSCA, was meaningless." The court added "such high costs are rarely, if ever, used to support a safety regulations."
  • Fourth, the Court found EPA's procedure inadequate both because it did not permit" full cross-examination of all its major witnesses," and because it "failed to give notice to the public" of the exposure estimates that it "used to support a substantial part" of its role. The Court found the latter flaw sufficient in and of itself to "overturn" the rule.
__________________
The ads in my post are there without my permission. I do not endorse any of the products.
Semi-Retired Installer
Installing since 1973
rusty baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 10:14 AM   #11
uva uvam videndo variafit
 
WirelessG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: W by God VA (bye MS )
Posts: 558
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikfishron View Post
What?
Have you ever tried to beat something with a vacuum cleaner power chord? It'll back up a grizzly bear.
WirelessG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 11:22 AM   #12
Pro Flooring Installer
 
rusty baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 3,816
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


The biggest problem with the asbestos scare is that it was overblown like the lead scare. Many places that asbestos was used was no danger at all if removed using common sense or left in place. Same as lead in paint.
__________________
The ads in my post are there without my permission. I do not endorse any of the products.
Semi-Retired Installer
Installing since 1973
rusty baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 03:45 PM   #13
Mold!! Let's kill it!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,842
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty baker View Post
. Why did the courts overturn the ban on asbestos?
The comprehensive, 57-page opinion written by Judge Jerry E. Smith, states that the Court "conclude(d) that EPA has presented insufficient evidence to justify its asbestos ban." The Court stated that its conclusion was based on "the failure of EPA to consider all necessary evidence" and "to give adequate weight to statutory language requiring it to promulgate the least burdensome, reasonable regulation required to protect the environment adequately."

The Court found EPA's support for a ban under the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) deficient in several major ways:
  • First, after noting that a ban - "the death penalty alternative" - is "the most burdensome of all possible" rules under TSCA, the Court held EPA had failed "to explore in more than a cursory way the less burdensome alternative to a total ban." EPA failed, the Court stated, "to calculate the cost and benefits" of "each regulatory option," as it is required to do to determine whether "any other regulation - would achieve an acceptable level of risk." The Court explained that EPA had not made such calculations "as it believed there was no asbestos exposure level for which the risk of injury or death was zero," but that this Agency assumption was incorrect as "reducing risk to zero was not the task Congress set for the EPA in enacting TSCA."
  • Second, the Court found EPA had failed "to evaluate the harm that will result from increased use of substitute products," many of which, the Court noted, contained carcinogens. As a result, said the Court, the ban "actually may increase the risk of injury Americans face."
  • Third, The Court held EPA had failed by "basically ignoring the cost side of the TSCA equation" to meet the statutory requirements to "balance the cost of its regulation against their benefits." The Court noted that "EPA's willingness to argue (for) spending $23.7 million to save less than one-third of a life reveals that its economic review of its regulations, as required by TSCA, was meaningless." The court added "such high costs are rarely, if ever, used to support a safety regulations."
  • Fourth, the Court found EPA's procedure inadequate both because it did not permit" full cross-examination of all its major witnesses," and because it "failed to give notice to the public" of the exposure estimates that it "used to support a substantial part" of its role. The Court found the latter flaw sufficient in and of itself to "overturn" the rule.
This was all very true to some degree. The court rulings did not argue the safety or health effects of asbestos, but merely that the EPA was not empowered to ban it under the laws then in place and had not proceeded in the proper manner to do so. The EPA did manage to limit friable asbestos through the clean air act. Today, 20-30 odd years later, the asbestos laws with the biggest teeth are NESHAP laws to protect kids in schools, EPA disposal laws and OSHA laws. The U.S. still imports over 7,000 metric tons of asbestos every year. In 2001, there were still over 3,000 products freely available in the U.S. market that contained asbestos, although the Consumer Product Safety Commision did manage to ban products that contained friable material.

Certified for Asbestos Abatement.
Maintenance 6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 04:14 PM   #14
Pro Flooring Installer
 
rusty baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 3,816
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


In floor coverings, The companies voluntarily quit using it as long as they could sell off remaining stock. This was in 1978, they estimate that remaining stock was sold into the middle 1990's. It was not as dangerous as most uses of asbestos anyway.
__________________
The ads in my post are there without my permission. I do not endorse any of the products.
Semi-Retired Installer
Installing since 1973
rusty baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 05:52 PM   #15
Mold!! Let's kill it!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,842
Default

Asbestos saves lives!


Yeah. How many boxes of 9x9 floor tiles were still setting around in warehouses and getting unloaded through builders salvage outlets years later?

Maintenance 6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ASBESTOS..... lots of questions. Dyoung Building & Construction 22 02-14-2012 05:15 PM
Asbestos in old vinyl floor taubel Flooring 3 08-19-2010 08:48 PM
Botched Asbestos Removal Several Years Ago...Remediation? vs1988 General DIY Discussions 10 08-16-2010 11:28 PM
Vinyl Siding Versus Painting Asbestos freedom_fighter Remodeling 3 02-27-2009 10:35 PM
asbestos & paint--let's talk. jaes Painting 4 08-10-2008 10:49 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.