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H. A. S. 10-31-2010 09:18 AM

Actual U. S. Debt-200 TRILLION
 
We are seriously screwed:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle1773879/


Ask questions before Tuesday.

WirelessG 10-31-2010 12:19 PM

While the debt and deficit concern me, I doubt that story. The Globe and Mail is an agenda-driven paper and I tend to doubt most anything that they publish. I'm not knowledgeable to refute what they say in detail. However, after applying a simple buck-tooth analysis I find it hard to see how any country or company can cook the books to that extent. Really? Fifteen times worse than is being reported? If that's true have the government cook the books again and make it look like we have $5T surplus? Surely the democrats would do this if they could in anticipation of the upcoming election. It simply doesn't make sense to me.

I'm glad to see that the debt and deficit are being discussed regularly these days. The last President that truly was concerned about them was Eisenhower. Bernie Madoff went to jail for the rest of his life. Nobody in the government has gone to jail because of social security - a ponzi scheme that has to be hundreds of thousands of times worse. Some say that social security is not running out of money, but I think it is or will. If you figure out what you pay into it over 40-45 years and then spread that total over 20 years (assuming you'll live that long) the yearly amount is quite small. However, the benefits statement that I receive says that I will get more than what I calculated. Since the government doesn't invest the money, how do they calculate more wealth in the system than I do? Maybe they figure I'll only live 10 years. Maybe they are cooking the books. I dont know what the answer is, but I'm awful skeptical.

Red Squirrel 10-31-2010 12:30 PM

I forget how much the war in Iraq is costing, but if I remember correctly it's an insane value, like 20 billion per hour or something.

Maybe they need to find a different supplier for their ammo. :o

nap 10-31-2010 03:08 PM

So, is there support for him claim of $200trillion or did the guy simply pull a number out of his rear? I saw nothing supporting the number in his article.

WirelessG 10-31-2010 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nap (Post 526217)
So, is there support for him claim of $200trillion or did the guy simply pull a number out of his rear? I saw nothing supporting the number in his article.

I don't know, but I think the $200T is some sort of projected number, although it's unclear how far out it is projected. And I think the author is taking some license with the rest of the story. If the average US household wage is $50,000, then the same ratio would put the average individual with $750,000 in debt. I know that some people got away with huge mortgages that they should not have been approved for, but I doubt $50k households were getting $750k loans.

del schisler 11-01-2010 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nap (Post 526217)
So, is there support for him claim of $200trillion or did the guy simply pull a number out of his rear? I saw nothing supporting the number in his article.


it is 13.7 trillion Here is a google search and the link. Check it out http://www.federalbudget.com/

del schisler 11-01-2010 01:14 PM

wait tell we get this bill from the PREZ
 
he is sopose to go to india . This is a google search Their is more here is the link http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...AAAqgQFT9C9Pao
US President Barack Obama's trip to India next month is set to be the biggest ever by any US president in terms of the protocol and logistics.

Headlines Today accessed the details of elaborate arrangements that will be in place to guard Obama. He will be accompanied by US first lady Micehlle Obama and their daughters Malia and Sasha.

Earlier, Obama's daughters Sasha and Malia were not to be part of the trip. But sources revealed that Michelle's opinion prevailed and now the girls would accompany the first American couple to India.

The US president will make a historic trip to the Taj Mahal along with his family. His visit is historic in terms of logistics which is the largest ever for a visiting US president.

Elaborate security arrangements
The presidential entourage will have 40 aircraft, including the Air Force One that will ferry the president. There will be six armoured cars, including four Barack Mobiles and a Cadillac
.

Cadillac is equipped with a mini communication centre to enable Obama to be in touch with the White House, US vice president and the US strategic command. It also has the US nuke launch codes and it can withstand a chemical or germ warfare and a bomb attack.

Two secret service command posts will be set up in Delhi and Mumbai to act as the communication nerve centres. These will monitor the president's movement with real time satellite monitoring.

Three Marine One choppers will be reassembled in India to ferry the president and his family and to evacuate them in case of any emergency.

kwikfishron 11-01-2010 03:19 PM

This will make your head spin.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html

WirelessG 11-01-2010 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikfishron (Post 526771)
This will make your head spin.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html

That looks about right and it's scary. One thing that I hope most understand is that the average debt per tax payer is $124k. The tax tables are progressive and the rich will end up paying more than $124k. However, you and I are likely the average tax payers. When are we going to find the time and the extra cash to pay of $124k? At some point there will be an economic boom and a chunk of the debt will be paid off. So let's cut it half for argument's sake. When are we going to find the time and the extra cash to pay of $62k?

Income tax, sales tax, gasoline tax, property tax, vehicle tax, cigarette tax, alcohol tax, and so on are paid by individuals. Even corporate taxes are paid by individuals since corporations simply add their tax bill to their operating costs. Wherever taxes are levied, we individuals will pay them. Costs are always passed on to the purchaser. Try to figure out what all of the taxes listed above cost you - you might just surprise yourself. Even if you are in the 48% that don't pay federal taxes, you still pay taxes through gas purchases, toll road fees, tag fees, etc, etc. In fact, I've read before where social security is considered a privilege by the federal government (although I can't say that it is or is not with certainty).

Scary stuff.

H. A. S. 11-01-2010 05:53 PM

This is scary enough:

10. Government Political Bomb(s). We have a Dysfunctional 2-Party System which has been infiltrated by progressives on both sides. There hasn't been a socialist born who understands real-world economics. They continue to believe that money grows on trees in their fantasyland utopias. Then add the insatiable Washington Lobbyist Machine of special interests/unions/big banks, the Homeland Insecurity Bomb including military spending (Iraq & Afghanistan at $3 trillion), and the Coming Populist Tax Revolt Bomb

But the godzilla bomb is lurking: The Plutonium Shadow Banking Derivative Bomb.

In 2008, the Fed freaked out over a paltry $100 billion in debts that were sloshing around the Wall Street "investment banking" gambling houses. Lehman Brothers popped first, followed by a dozen more. Then AIG went poof trying to pay off a little bitty $150 billion in banking derivative "guarantees". The Treasury quickly poured in money to seal the leaking dam, slowing the flow to a trickle.

But now global banking derivatives have expanded to over $670 trillion. Since the entire world's GDP is only $50 trillion, when this bubble pops, it will consume 13 years of the all money everywhere..

It isn't going to happen. We'll reboot the entire system before that. There will be winners (people who owe money and own gold) and losers (people who keep their assets in the bank and stock market). Instant millionaires will be made overnight; old millionaires will be made penniless. Which group will you be in?


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=35666

Windows 11-02-2010 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WirelessG (Post 526834)
That looks about right and it's scary. One thing that I hope most understand is that the average debt per tax payer is $124k. The tax tables are progressive and the rich will end up paying more than $124k. However, you and I are likely the average tax payers. When are we going to find the time and the extra cash to pay of $124k? At some point there will be an economic boom and a chunk of the debt will be paid off. So let's cut it half for argument's sake. When are we going to find the time and the extra cash to pay of $62k?

Income tax, sales tax, gasoline tax, property tax, vehicle tax, cigarette tax, alcohol tax, and so on are paid by individuals. Even corporate taxes are paid by individuals since corporations simply add their tax bill to their operating costs. Wherever taxes are levied, we individuals will pay them. Costs are always passed on to the purchaser. Try to figure out what all of the taxes listed above cost you - you might just surprise yourself. Even if you are in the 48% that don't pay federal taxes, you still pay taxes through gas purchases, toll road fees, tag fees, etc, etc. In fact, I've read before where social security is considered a privilege by the federal government (although I can't say that it is or is not with certainty).

Scary stuff.

The $200 Trillion may factor in unfunded future obligations such as Medicare and Social Security. Not that it matters - we are totally screwed either way. I like your optimism WirelessG that somehow an economic boom will magically pay off half the debt, when the debt itself was accumulated during 60 years of unprecedented growth and prosperity. Even now in my state, voters have a chance to pass a very small point-of-purchase tax on soft drinks and candy, with the money earmarked for healthcare and education, and it looks like the people are saying no. Rightly or wrongly, people feel taxed out, and if they can't see fit to accept a tiny, voluntary increase for which they receive direct benefit, how will people accept huge tax increases to pay for the past? "IOUSA" is a must watch for anyone concerned with the national debt.

del schisler 11-02-2010 06:08 AM

debt
 
how can the debt get paid off ??? we have nothing to sell other countries. No factory's like back in i guess 1950-1960 we had factory's and didn't need to import very little . Than a prez open up the free trade and their went all the factory's . So now we buy and inport their goes the defect get's higher. It will never go down . I belive we will be owned by a oversea's country . We contenu to borrow money from japan we get deper indebt? No botton I heard this yrs ago that japan would own the usa with firing a shot?? my 2cent's if worth that much inflation here is a link

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...8f35a77978fbf6

RedHelix 11-02-2010 12:02 PM

It truly bothers me how the national debt is tossed around as a political tool; calling it a debt is a borderline misnomer. Yeah, it's money owed to other entities, but not in the same sense as credit cards or mortgages.

Scuba_Dave 11-02-2010 12:18 PM

Voting today
We have 3 issues we can vote on to reduce taxes
I'm voting yest to reduce taxes on all 3 items

nap 11-02-2010 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHelix (Post 527342)
It truly bothers me how the national debt is tossed around as a political tool; calling it a debt is a borderline misnomer. Yeah, it's money owed to other entities, but not in the same sense as credit cards or mortgages.

mind explaining that one? The national debt is in fact money owed to some entity by the government just as a credit card would be. While there isn't an account in the fashion of a credit card, there are notes issued (basically: IOU's)

it is no different than you going to the bank to borrow money to do something. You owe the money, they hold the note. The US nat'l debt is constructed in the same manner.


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