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-   -   how do you refill paslode gas cartridges? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f29/how-do-you-refill-paslode-gas-cartridges-109243/)

timbertimber 06-30-2011 04:10 AM

how do you refill paslode gas cartridges?
 
I know you are not supposed to but does any one know how it would be possible to refill a paslode gass cartridge?

12penny 06-30-2011 06:58 AM

And just when you think you've heard it all.

Just Bill 06-30-2011 07:07 AM

I don't think it is practical or doable.

oh'mike 06-30-2011 07:35 AM

As long as you are here---How do you refill ball point pen cartridges?

Ron6519 06-30-2011 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Bill (Post 677065)
I don't think it is practical or doable.

I don't think it's too bright myself to even attempt it.

loneframer 06-30-2011 11:10 AM

I'd like to know what you are going to refill them with.:huh:

It's my understanding that along with the combustibles, there is a lubricant to keep the gun operating properly.

I don't think I'd be trying to fill it with a propane cylinder or butane either.:no:

New fuel cells only cost a little over 5 bucks each. If that's not in your price range, I recommend Harbor Freight for a cheap gun and a compressor.

You could sell the Impulse gun, buy a HF set-up with several different guns and still have a few bucks left over.

All you lose is the convenience and reliability of a great gun, but you free yourself from the penny per 5-10 shots for fuel.

chriseccles 02-01-2012 02:42 AM

Paslode refills
 
Basically, like most other tradesmen, I soon discovered the Paslode rip-off, to wit that Paslode are retailing butane/propane mix at around 400 times its actual market value in their 'fuel cell' containers. Here, in Ireland, a twin pack of cells for the IM350 gun costs around 45 (about $52) for 60g of gas mix. Contrast this with the 350g of the same mix in a cylinder for a plumbers' burner gun, which retails for 3.99 (under $5).

Confronted with this blatant con-trick by Paslode, my son and I decided to investigate a safe, reliable and cost-effective methodology for refilling the cells.

Here are our results:

First, you CANNOT simply pipe up the gas mix from one cylinder to the other; the pressure differential is not high enough to transfer much mix, or indeed any at all.

Boyle's Law determines the behaviour of gases confined within vessels and, to be able to fill one cylinder from another, there requires to be a substantial pressure difference so that, when equilibrium is reached in the system, some mix has moved from the full to the empty container. If you just connect the empty to the full at room temperature, very little happens !

The secret is to expel the residual gas from the 'empty' cylinder by holding its valve in the open position (we devised a simple clamp which holds four cells in the open, vented, position) at an elevated temperature. A small tank of boiled water achieves this in about 30 seconds. Removing each cell from the clamp then closes its valve and creates a partial vacuum in the cell as it cools to room temperature.

Further cooling, with the valve still closed, (30 minutes in a regular home freezer) then enhances this vacuum. (just as a test, if you open one of the valves at this point, you will hear the inrush of air as the vacuum is destroyed.)

We bored the regulator channel out of the head of an old plumbers' burner gun to get a flow of liquefied gas at 'neat' pressure, and connected this via 8mm copper tube to a simple outlet sealed with an O-ring to form the joint to the 4mm diameter Paslode valve on the top of the cells. Clamping a cold, evacuated cell on to the outlet then allows the vacuum to suck in some liquid mix and recharge the cell.

You don't get the full 30g transfered (average is around 16g, depending on how full the source cylinder is) but it's a useable charge. We reckon to fill around 10 cells from a 3.99 cylinder. That's 0.39 (50) a cell as opposed to 22.50 ($26) in the store.

The apparatus built cost around 30 and a few hours of workshop time to turn the outlet socket on the lathe. Do the math !

loneframer 02-01-2012 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriseccles (Post 841032)
Basically, like most other tradesmen, I soon discovered the Paslode rip-off, to wit that Paslode are retailing butane/propane mix at around 400 times its actual market value in their 'fuel cell' containers. Here, in Ireland, a twin pack of cells for the IM350 gun costs around €45 (about $52) for 60g of gas mix. Contrast this with the 350g of the same mix in a cylinder for a plumbers' burner gun, which retails for €3.99 (under $5).

Confronted with this blatant con-trick by Paslode, my son and I decided to investigate a safe, reliable and cost-effective methodology for refilling the cells.

Here are our results:

First, you CANNOT simply pipe up the gas mix from one cylinder to the other; the pressure differential is not high enough to transfer much mix, or indeed any at all.

Boyle's Law determines the behaviour of gases confined within vessels and, to be able to fill one cylinder from another, there requires to be a substantial pressure difference so that, when equilibrium is reached in the system, some mix has moved from the full to the empty container. If you just connect the empty to the full at room temperature, very little happens !

The secret is to expel the residual gas from the 'empty' cylinder by holding its valve in the open position (we devised a simple clamp which holds four cells in the open, vented, position) at an elevated temperature. A small tank of boiled water achieves this in about 30 seconds. Removing each cell from the clamp then closes its valve and creates a partial vacuum in the cell as it cools to room temperature.

Further cooling, with the valve still closed, (30 minutes in a regular home freezer) then enhances this vacuum. (just as a test, if you open one of the valves at this point, you will hear the inrush of air as the vacuum is destroyed.)

We bored the regulator channel out of the head of an old plumbers' burner gun to get a flow of liquefied gas at 'neat' pressure, and connected this via 8mm copper tube to a simple outlet sealed with an O-ring to form the joint to the 4mm diameter Paslode valve on the top of the cells. Clamping a cold, evacuated cell on to the outlet then allows the vacuum to suck in some liquid mix and recharge the cell.

You don't get the full 30g transfered (average is around 16g, depending on how full the source cylinder is) but it's a useable charge. We reckon to fill around 10 cells from a €3.99 cylinder. That's €0.39 (50) a cell as opposed to €22.50 ($26) in the store.

The apparatus built cost around €30 and a few hours of workshop time to turn the outlet socket on the lathe. Do the math !

That sounds about like the equivalent of building a Meth lab.

To each his own, but for me, adding 30 seconds to a Home Depot trip and spending roughly 25 bucks for 4 fuel cells (trim guns) that will last me a good long time is money well spent. As for the framing gun, if I buy a pack of 2, they usually go bad before I use them up. They are used for pick-up work, not bulk framing.

If I'm in a situation where I'm shooting through more than a few hundred nails a day, I break out the compressor and hoses. That's even less expensive than using Hocus-Pocus to refill spent fuel cells.

mrgins 02-01-2012 01:02 PM

I have the senco hoseless, fuel less, finish gun.

firehawkmph 02-01-2012 01:25 PM

Why don't you just get a Dewalt cordless trim gun? I've had one since they come out and they do a better job than the impulse guns, (which I also have and don't use anymore), they don't stink, and all they require are a recharge now and then.
Mike Hawkins:)

woodworkbykirk 02-01-2012 07:20 PM

if the paslode cells were refillable they would have done it by now.. the impulse guns have been on the marker for what 25 years now Riz?

where its paslodes design for the gun they are selling the cells so people are using the correct cell and hte correct gas mixture for it.. their protecting your investment.. same as with hilti tools or air nailers.. if you use the correct fastners or shot as listed by the manufacturer you will wont have problems with the tool.. ive seen guys use cheap no name strips of nails in paslode power master framing guns only for the nails to jamb up and break the guns...

as for brand. i would take the paslode over dewalt any day.. though the dewalt idea is decent. they certainly didnt invent it senco was the first to have a battery only gun but it never caught on... plus ive used over 20 dewalt nail guns. and only one didnt jamb up within the first 15 minutes of using it.. of those 3 or 4 were the cordless models.. they make a mess out of trim making large nail holes which arent clean like the paslode makes

as long as a paslode gun is maintained and cleaned every 3rd or 4th fuel cell it will work fine. eh riz!

<*(((>< 02-01-2012 09:26 PM

I've had great luck with my dewalt 15g cordless nailer. As far as I'm concerned unless it starts to become unreliable, you won't find me paying for fuel cells for my finish guns.

As far a refilling the fuel cells I know some have done it before as I was researching it for my paslode fuel cell framer. They were lubricating it periodically. From what I remember they were able to use an air soft adapter to fill the tanks and while not getting them as full as a new cell they were able to get a good amount of shots per fill and for a lot less cost.

I will try and find the links to the threads I was reading where it was detailed out when I get to my other computer.

ben's plumbing 02-01-2012 09:51 PM

here is how we do it...get into chevy truck put on seatbelt..."it the law" drive to local store..hardware or lowes .h d you know..purchase package of 2- gas cartridges return to shop or job ..cyclinders full ready to install...case closed:laughing::laughing::laughing:

loneframer 02-01-2012 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodworkbykirk (Post 841586)
if the paslode cells were refillable they would have done it by now.. the impulse guns have been on the marker for what 25 years now Riz?


as long as a paslode gun is maintained and cleaned every 3rd or 4th fuel cell it will work fine. eh riz!

I've run thousands and thousands of nails through my 16 gauge angled Impulse gun with very few nail jams and every one of them was from hitting a nail plate of a drywall screw.

I've recently put my 18 gauge to work very hard and it has been just as reliable.

Cleaning is important to keep these guns in optimum working order, but I have seen many guys abuse them terribly and they keep on going.

Impulse technology has been around for over 25 years. 1986 was the original release of the framing gun, if memory serves.

As far as cost, a typical home can be completely trimmed out with less than 2 fuel cells, or roughly 12 dollars.
Cost is relative to savings. I'd say I save at least 10-15 minutes a day by not fighting with tangled hoses. This alone offsets the fuel expense and I never hear a compressor running or a hose fitting hissing.

Gary in WA 02-02-2012 12:16 AM

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