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Old 03-30-2006, 06:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Lefty Lucy
I smell a lot of BS here.
.....lol...
It's OK to back that up Lefty Lucy
No need to do a drive-by on us and drop a bomb like that without elaborating
:D

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Old 09-29-2009, 09:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
The exclusive de-spec'd items will usually have a different stock #
558 or 557s

Not only check the Model # but also check the UPC Code on the packaging!
I've seen what appeared to be high-end name brand tools in packaging that did not identify a model # for an average of 15% less then offered at my local family-owned hardware store.
When I compare the UPC Code #, I found the item at the bigbox store that was cheaper & had no model # on the box was a different UPC Code then at my local store .... The Brand was the same, the Item Name & Description was the same, yet the lower-cost item had no Model # & a different UPC Code.

The UPC Codes on the packaging are generally appled (or printed) by or for the manufacturer BEFORE the seller gets the product.
So even if the item name, brand, & model # are all the same ... if the UPC Code # is different, the product is different in some way!

It could be simply newer packaging, though most likely it's difference in the item itself.
The model # could be the same & the UPC Code different, indicating a different manufacturing plant. It could be as well that 1 plant manufactures the quality stuff while the other plant manufactures the unspec'd stuff that sells for less, the only packaging difference being the UPC Code.

We have a local veggie canning facility that has 2 plants side-by-side. 1 plant processes & cans the name brand stuff, the other processes & cans the generic/store brands for various stores PLUS the name brand stuff headed for Walmart.
Even though the name brand stuff from both plants appear to have identical packaging, the name brand stuiff from the generic plant has a different UPC Bar Code, meaning it's a different item!


With vast mass production of many of these products, there are going to be some lemons out there. The more products a specific store sells, the more likely they will encounter a larger quantity of lemons.
A brandname Whirlpool Washer I once owned had motor & pump & other problems within the 1st 3-months of ownership. They sent repairmen out to the house several times, each time a differnt problem ... finally after the 6th call, they replaced the washer & delivered it all without any costs to me & we never had a problem again!

My question... why do some of the bigbox stores like HomeDepot appear to end up with a disproportionate larger percenage of lemons then stores like sears?
Is it simply the volume of tools that move through HomeDepot?
Is it that those who shop of sears tend to be a little more retentive when it comes to caring for their tools?
Is it that most of HomeDepots customers are layman & perhaps buying/using a general purpose tool when the job requires a professional grade tool?
Is it that many of HDs customers misuse the tools form the onset?
Or is it ruely that the tools have been unspec'd & downgraded to lower the price?

I tend to buy from my local family-owned hardware store, tools & lumber, after all, they are only 20-miles away where as HomeDepot is more then 60-miles away!
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Sharky24739 View Post
the item at the bigbox store that was cheaper & had no model # on the box was a different UPC Code then at my local store .... The Brand was the same, the Item Name & Description was the same, yet the lower-cost item had no Model # & a different UPC Code.

The UPC Codes on the packaging are generally appled (or printed) by or for the manufacturer BEFORE the seller gets the product.
So even if the item name, brand, & model # are all the same ... if the UPC Code # is different, the product is different in some way!

It could be simply newer packaging, though most likely it's difference in the item itself.
The model # could be the same & the UPC Code different, indicating a different manufacturing plant. It could be as well that 1 plant manufactures the quality stuff while the other plant manufactures the unspec'd stuff that sells for less, the only packaging difference being the UPC Code.
More often than not, a different UPC is nothing more than a difference in packaging. Here is a very common example.

Joe's Wizbang Tool Co has been in business for 100 years, selling to family owned hardware stores across the country. As the little stores continue to die off, sales die, and Joe III decides to go pitch his product to the Home Depot. Home Depot goes GA-GA over his line of Wizbang tools, and the buyer hands Joe an initial purchase order with his left hand, and with his right hand he gives Joe a 70 page document that describes all the terms and conditions that Joe agrees to meet if he chooses to accept this purchase order. These stores have VERY strict packaging requirements, so more often than not, these companies like Joe's need to change their packaging. Sometimes it's to add Spanish and/or French to it, sometimes they need to add artwork, like pict-a-grams or photos of the tool in use. Other times their package needs to be larger, or harder to open to deter shoplifting, and sometimes they need to make it smaller, so it fits easily into the spot of the existing item they are replacing. Now if Joe has a ton of inventory already in his warehouse, all with the old packaging, more often than not he will continue to sell that package to his existing customers, and create a new part number (and a new UPC) for the new packaging, so his warehouse crew won't be confused when they pick orders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky24739 View Post

We have a local veggie canning facility that has 2 plants side-by-side. 1 plant processes & cans the name brand stuff, the other processes & cans the generic/store brands for various stores PLUS the name brand stuff headed for Walmart.
Even though the name brand stuff from both plants appear to have identical packaging, the name brand stuiff from the generic plant has a different UPC Bar Code, meaning it's a different item!
if you are saying that both products are sold as the same product, under the same brand, and have the same ingredents, weight, etc.. and the only differernce is the UPC code, I would say that you are probably missing something. this would be a logistics nightmare for this company, and I can't for the life of me understand what reason they could possibly have for doing this, it would cost them money, not save them any

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky24739 View Post

I tend to buy from my local family-owned hardware store, tools & lumber, after all, they are only 20-miles away where as HomeDepot is more then 60-miles away!
So are you saying that despite all the things you implied about Home depot and their vendors being dishonest, you would shop there if they were closer!! LOL I am very confused!!
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:47 PM   #19
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my teach said that the power tools from big department stores are re-manufactured. A saw from home depot is 500 then at a power tools place it sells for 800-900 for the very same saw.

Is this true though?
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:06 PM   #20
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my teach said that the power tools from big department stores are re-manufactured. A saw from home depot is 500 then at a power tools place it sells for 800-900 for the very same saw.

Is this true though?
It's true when they are are in plain looking boxes and clearly marked FACTORY RECONDITIONED, For the most part, HD and Lowes want nothing to do with recons. Places like Harbor frieght, Northern Tool, Big Lots, etc sell recons everyday, clearly marked as such.

Depot and Lowes are so much cheaper for 1 main reason: They want to be!! They have the a big stick, and aren't afraid to beat up their vendors with it to get the best deals. Talk to anyone who has ever sold to these guys, and they will tell you how demanding these guys are. they would never risk their customers confiendce by knowing selling recons as new. why? they don't have to
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Old 10-04-2009, 08:39 PM   #21
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So power tools at HD and Lowes don't have cheaper parts put into them to make them cheaper? Like different bearings, triggers, and other parts in a power tool?

I know Walmart does that, that's why they sell their stuff cheaper.

I don't want to buy a $500.00 miter saw from Lowe's if they do change that stuff. I want the saw to last long.
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:10 AM   #22
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So power tools at HD and Lowes don't have cheaper parts put into them to make them cheaper? Like different bearings, triggers, and other parts in a power tool?
This is where the conversation gets a little tricky. Places like the Home Depot spend all day, everyday looking for ways to keep costs down, and they are very good at it. For the most part, their whole mission is to provide QUALITY at LOW COSTS, and they are pretty serious about this, and because of their volume and buying power, are not shy about hammering their suppliers. they make their vendors manage the inventory, and want guarenteed lowest costs, rebates, free frieght, mark-down dollars, no questions asked returns, marketing funds, first-fourth born children, etc....

Manufacturers sometimes find themselves in a bind, and have to balance trying to find a way to be profitable, while meeting all these expensive demands, and maintaining a price point that will keep consumers buying. Many times, a manufacturer will accomplish this by creating a new model, which is often done by simply "dumbing down" an existing item.

So for an example, lets say that Joe's WhizBang Power Tool company makes a top-of-the-line miter saw that retails for an established price of about $700 in contractor supply houses. Let's say Home Depot wants to stock this item, and insists on being able to retail it for $549. Maybe there is enough margin in it, that without making any changes this is doable, maybe not.

Now the sales department at Joe's has to have some meetings, and make some choices based on their situation. Maybe this miter saw is VERY profitable for Joe's, and they can easily sell it to HD at a price where they can mark it up, and resell it for $549. In this situation Joe's has two choices, they can sell it as-is to HD under the same model number, or they can simply create a new model number WITHOUT changing a single other thing, this way the supply houses don't start grumbling, since the $700 saw MUST BE DIFFERENT from the $550 big box version, since the price and the model number are different

Now if Joe's CAN"T make money selling the same saw, they will often take the old saw, swap out the motor, or some components, with lower cost versions, create a new model number and offer that to HD.

The obvious question that remains is COULD the manufacturer swap out a lower priced component without changing the model number and the answer to that is yes. Most power tool companies will buy components from a couple different sources, or at least have a secondary source for most parts, so if one trigger factory has a problem, it doesn't keep them from producing tools. this is why they often require you to provide serial numbers when you order parts, so they know which motor was used in your saw, or which trigger, etc, but they also use serial numbers for warranty info, and overall longevitity tracking, so just because someone asks for your serial number, it doesn't automatically mean there is any hanky-panky going on. You'll also see model numbers like a 5521A, 5521B, 5521.1, 5521.2 for similiar reasons

You could walk into your local contractor supply house (or home depot) today, and buy two identical power tools at the same store, and it's possible that they could have 1 or more differnet componets used in building them.
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Last edited by Mr Chips; 10-05-2009 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
Hey an old post, but I have an answer for you
It's CPV

Lets say Porter-Cable has a framing saw, you see it in your local tool shop for...say $189
It's quiet, light, strong, and has a great blade
You shop around a bit and see it in HD for less
It's only $159...what a bargain!

Hold on there partner, here's what happened
HD brass saw the P/C saw and said great, we want to carry that, but we want to charge less than $189
P/C says we can't lower our price to you, it's a great price

Now comes the CPV
Customer Perceived Value

Big Box says well, our average customer won't see the value (extra $) of that magnesium guide...can you make it steel?
Our avg. cust won't perceive the value of those fancy motor bushings, or that fancy blade
Make your saw for us to these new specs and we'll carry your saw
And we'll sell it for $159

If P/C says no, then Big Box won't carry a P/C framing saw

Voila, Home Despot has a de-spec'd P/C saw that looks like the one at the local tool shop
I think you are not well versed in either business law or how a business operates.

The saw in question we will say is a PC Framing saw Model ABC which sells for $189 at the local ACE or other small hardware store. If Home Depot carries that exact saw with that exact model # from Porter Cable then you can bet the farm and your house it is the identical saw in every conceivable way. Where any retailer to sell a saw which was differently spec'd and inferior and yet carried the identical Model designation of another higher quality item, both the executives of HD (or other outlet) and the manufacturer of the saw would spend years in prison for consumer fraud. Add to that the fact Home Depot would be out of business OVERNIGHT once the word got out that the stores sold fraudulently labeled merchandise.

I cannot tell you how many times I have heard this sort of nonsense about a big box store. It mostly comes from Contractors who want their own customers to by from suppliers they send them to for the simple reason these local suppliers will "kick back" as much as 10-15% of what the customer buys from them to the contractor. Home Depot and Lowes will not indulge in this practice (it's perfectly legal) and instead simply sell the product for less so the Contractor and the homeowner pay the same price.

Also Home Depot with over 10,000 stores world wide has ENORMOUS buying power and where ACE Hardware may buy 200 of the saws in question to sell to their local stores, Home Depot will buy perhaps 30,000 of these same saws to spread around to their 10,000 stores (3 saws per store). It is easy to see why a Home depot with that sort of buying power would secure a far more favorable price from a manufacturer.

Lastly, Home Depot has an iron clad return policy which allows an item to be returned for ANY reason at ANY time up to 6 months after purchase for a full cash refund (even if it has been used) and for a store credit after that for an almost unlimited period of time. hey took back from me 2 ceiling fans over 2 years old which developed a hum when turned on. I had no packaging, no receipt, no proof at all I even bought them there and yet they replaced them immediately and at no charge. They offered me a credit good in the store but I took the new fans because I needed them.

Home Depot is the most customer friendly retail store I have ever dealt with and I am retired,so not a kid and have dealt with them since their inception.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:43 AM   #24
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...Joe's WhizBang Power Tool company...
Sounds like they make pretty awesome tools. Where can I get me some?
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:54 AM   #25
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... Yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, ...

So what's your angle for opening up this 2+ year old thread?
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:06 PM   #26
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Lol,angle? I heard this very claim again today and decided to see how widespread the belef is regardibg HD and "inferior" merch.

Do you dispute what I say?
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:43 PM   #27
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Just wanted to see if you were a spammer, that's all.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:58 PM   #28
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Not a spammer. It just amazes me how some people will believe anything without doing even doing their own research
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:06 PM   #29
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I have not heard that but ,it would stand to reason though.

If you think about it look at say sears,they sell mostly american made,good quality stuff,well ,except their tape measures they have really gone downhill:DBut anyway,most of their stuff is well built quality merchandise that will and does stand the test of time and you will pay for that up front.
While the other places will throw in a mix of good ,better ,best ther are some places that will only give you pretty much one choice and it is usually good ,well made tools or hardware or whatever and you will pay a premium for that product whatever that may be.My $.02 worth
Sear's don't make any of their product's as far as i know i wouldn't buy any of their tool's. I thro away the last thing i have of sear's and won't be buying anything from them . They couldn't make it on their own so now they sell anything they can. Yrs ago back in the 60's they wouldn't work on anything that didn't have a sear's name on it. I said than you are going to go broke and they dam near did on account of that. oh well i don't like them don't go into any of their stores my 2 cent's

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