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Old 04-29-2010, 09:29 AM   #1
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a drill/driver -impact combo question


Hello,
I need to buy a new drill/driver set as my fried the batteries, and the switch on one of those tools. The set was a poor quality, and I am not going to fix it.

I am not looking to find out which is the "best" drill because we know who the major players are, and I am not interested in a p*ssing contest in this thread

I am the type of user who uses these tools alot more than an average homeowner, but alot less than a contractor.

I have narrowed it down to two brands/sets. The main item of concern is the battery performance

1. Makita LCT/(or LXT depending on discounts)
2. Dewalt with the iron phosphate batteries. (they branded it as lithium ion) This tech is NOT the same as the other companies lithium brands.

The dewalt system will set me back ~$200 more, but the batteries in theory should last many times longer according to the non-biased non-dewalt literature out there that I have read. Apparently its the battery of choice for hobbiests. I wanted to know if anyone has had experience with their lithium/nano batteries, who would use them as much as I do.

I don't fancy the idea of plunking money to buy batteries every few years because the technology can't hold a charge whether I use them or not. If I like what I hear, I would probably buy the dewalt, if not, I would go with the makita kit.

Thoughts are appreciated
-G


Last edited by gramps416; 04-29-2010 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:27 AM   #2
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a drill/driver -impact combo question


I have the Makita and they are great. They are light weight, plenty of power and the batteries seem to last a while & charge quickly. The LED on the front is gimmicky but I've found it to be pretty handy to have. I haven't had them long enough to know if the batteries will last 5 years but in the time I've had them I haven't had any problems.

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Old 04-29-2010, 12:06 PM   #3
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a drill/driver -impact combo question


Quote:
Originally Posted by gramps416 View Post
The main item of concern is the battery performance

1. Makita LCT/(or LXT depending on discounts)
2. Dewalt with the iron phosphate batteries. (they branded it as lithium ion) This tech is NOT the same as the other companies lithium brands.

The dewalt system will set me back ~$200 more, but the batteries in theory should last many times longer according to the non-biased non-dewalt literature out there that I have read. Apparently its the battery of choice for hobbiests. I wanted to know if anyone has had experience with their lithium/nano batteries, who would use them as much as I do.
Here's some numbers for that battery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...sphate_battery
Unfortunately there are no max/min values posted for these average values.

I guess you are looking for max charge/disch. cycles per dollar spent
or
overall low cost of ownership per dollar spent. This last one depends on the cost of the batteries, now and after you buy the tool, and the tool reliability.

Online hobbyists make home-brew battery rejuvenator circuits, e.g. for NiCads, but this technology is pretty new. There also may be online places that sell mechanically & electrically equivalent batteries.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 04-29-2010 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:18 AM   #4
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a drill/driver -impact combo question


I have the Makita 141 with the 18v 3Ah battery. Only had it a little over a month, so can't talk about how long the battery will last.

But last weekend I drove over 50 5/16 x 4 inch lag bolts into a built up post of 3 2x6s. The driver never slowed, and the last went in as easily as the first. That's good battery life in my book.

This set at Amazon has a rebate for a free battery, and is a pretty good price for the set. Don't know much about the drill, but it's the same impact driver as I have. And a much better deal than I paid for...

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LXT218-...629170&sr=8-34

Let us know which you buy and why.

Bill
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:08 AM   #5
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a drill/driver -impact combo question


I own the Dewalt 18v impact driver - drill combo set with 2 18v compact lithium nano batteries and the fast charger. I got them a couple months ago and LOVE them.

I haven't technically timed how long the batteries last but I have recently taken down an old wooden swing set that had A LOT of rusted lag bolts in it. I was able to get through the entire thing and wen through about 1.5 batteries. I was at it for roughly 4-5 hours with a lot of use of the impact driver. The beauty is that the charger that comes with the set fully charges the lithium nano battery in 30 minutes so you should never really be waiting for a battery to charge using either the driver or drill. If you have an XRP battery (Nicd, Nimh, or lithium) it takes 60 minutes to charge.

The other nice thing about the Dewalt 18v line of tools is that the batteries will fit all of them (nano or XRP). Dewalt sells "tool only" (no bat or charger) which is great for expanding a set with a couple of batteries. I currently own the 18v recip and 6.5" circular saw too. I am not sure if Makita's 18v batteries fit all the tools in the lineup but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

One word of caution on the recip saw - with any decent cutting load it will chew through the 18v nano lithium battery in about 20 minutes. That is the only time I was waiting for a battery to finish charging but it was a decent little break If I decide to keep the cordless recip I will get an XRP battery

J
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:04 AM   #6
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a drill/driver -impact combo question


BTW

I don't have an MBA so if I want to know what the CEOs are up to I have to go to the library.

This book
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...62430/bpo01-20
has told me that the manufacturers would very much like to know the 'buyer's willingness to pay' and they have legal ways of extracting this info from the consumer.

Threads like this provide that info for free, and actually work against the buyer. It's like discussing how much you are really willing to pay for something with the salesman who is selling it to you.
The salesman is already at an advantage because he/she knows the quality of his/her product and the buyer doesn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry

One conclusion is that sellers are cruising the 'Net looking for threads like this so they can input them into the strategy software packages that only large companies can afford to buy.

I don't know of any way around this. Any truthful opinion offered is gold for the sellers and will eventually work against the buyers.

Maybe there are forums for CEOs where they discuss how hard it is to make a living, and we should be cruising those forums for tips on how to 'even the playing field'

Last edited by Yoyizit; 04-30-2010 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:31 PM   #7
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a drill/driver -impact combo question


This thread is NOT about who is better. It is a simple inquiry on whether people's batteries from a particular manufacture are holding up. The truth is, I could not get a clear cut answer about how the Iron Phosphate batteries worked in conjunction with the dewalt tool loads. How well did they perform? it's too soon to tell.

It is difficult to choose sometimes, where all I want is for something to work, that I don't have to service more often than not. We all know that no product is perfect. I think that is the problem with "these threads"
is that we expect perfection where information is so readily available.

I find myself checking items online very often to avoid the "made in (insert non-westernized nation here)" factor. I have to put in extra work to avoid poorly made products, and sometimes the logic is unfounded from what Yoyizit said. Sometimes I give up and give in. The cheap prices are not worth the extra headache we have to endure. A friend of mine just subscribes to consumer reports, and focuses his time on his children. I am starting to think that such a strategy may be worth it.

What I am going to buy?
the answer is simple for me. Makita.
Why? the calculated reasoning for this is not so clear even after extensive research.
That seems this to be the logical choice for me. This formula on how I arrived at this is not the same for all of us.
I could have easily gone for another recognized name brand just as easily like Hitachi, Bosch, or others if I happened to be reading different articles or on a Monday rather than a Thursday.

The dewalt XRP-line is definitely one of the better lines out there, but in my opinion, though some of the tools were very well balanced for the most part, they felt slightly heavy for my taste. For other people who are slightly more burly and have hands larger than mine, would probably love the Dewalt tools. A few years ago, before cordless tools were so light as they are today, my opinion on how I liked the dewalt would be a drastically different. Our expectations become only greater over time.

The ironic thing is that extra weight is a sign of quality, Something I have been searching for.

Conclusion: Its too damn hard to make a simple decision nowadays. Go with your gut, and don't second guess yourself too much.
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Old 04-30-2010, 04:25 PM   #8
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a drill/driver -impact combo question


gramps, I like your reasoning, good post.

DeWalt has jumped on the bandwagon with the new Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) technology as has GM for their new VOLT car.

LFP may later evolve into the dominate technology for tool batteries but one reason the manufacturers all like it is that it will be cheaper. J
ust because it's new I don't think that it should be worth a premium price.
.

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