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redrover 04-11-2010 09:37 PM

Can't get Radial Arm Saw to bevel
 
I want to bevel a 2x4 on my Radial Arm saw and for the life of me cannot get the motor to turn. There is a lubricating point the manual says to access turn to 45 degrees. Manual also has a whole lot of repetition the motor is going to drop like a ton of bricks when the lever is released but I can't get it to move more than 1/8". It is an old saw and the environment is rough here in the tropics.

Any thoughts or suggestions to try?

Yoyizit 04-11-2010 09:39 PM

Post close-up photos.

redrover 04-11-2010 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoyizit (Post 427365)
Post close-up photos.

Wow you're fast.:thumbup: What part?

Yoyizit 04-11-2010 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrover (Post 427370)
Wow you're fast.:thumbup: What part?

That may or may not be a compliment, coming from a lady:eek:

Take a picture of every suspected pivot point.
This can't be that complicated of a mechanism; I suspect something is jammed.
Sometimes you have to lift the motor to take the weight off the release mechanism.

A link to the manual may also help. I hope the saw is not from Harbor Freight.

redrover 04-11-2010 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoyizit (Post 427374)
That may or may not be a compliment, coming from a lady:eek:

Take a picture of every suspected pivot point.
This can't be that complicated of a mechanism; I suspect something is jammed.
Sometimes you have to lift the motor to take the weight off the release mechanism.

A link to the manual may also help. I hope the saw is not from Harbor Freight.

Well, take that as a compliment. When I intend to offend its usually quite clear. Love your avatar photo, used to have it on my desktop J Now I have a really cool (cage shot) GW.
Give me a moment; know it's later on your side of the world. But pretty annoyed I need this stupid 2x4 before continuing this project.

redrover 04-11-2010 10:09 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Not getting a free manual to download, looking. Try more photos also. It is a Sears Craftsman 10" Radial Saw Model No 113.198111.

redrover 04-11-2010 10:10 PM

Edited above for the photos
No pin type release - or mentioned in the manual. Thought of that. Found the internal pins (shall I say) to get it to swivel and freed it eventually with some force and one was a bit gunky. Another get it to turn and voila - now can see the pins. Gave me hope with the bevel :). Looked and looked at the bevel point, would that be plate? and parts list. Sure can't find any pin on the outside with motor upright.
I've been lifting the motor trying to reduce any stress on all the other turn and move places. Tried adjusting a bolt in the back - complicated to explain but had to do with the locking bevel - hoping for some magical click release on the unlock side. Put it back to where the manual said, locked as can with 1/8" from stop.
I'm afraid to get mideval with the twisting - but maby if it worked...just have to re- true everything again? I'm no gorilla but fear I can bend things enough to really screw them up.

retiree 04-11-2010 10:20 PM

locking pin
 
after you release the tightening lever you must lift the pin knob on the top. It should then rotate.

redrover 04-11-2010 10:47 PM

Got some photos edited above.
Hope this link works for Manual -
I'll try saving and attaching, hmmm won't.
Online View Manual there on the R center.
http://www.managemylife.com/mmh/owner_manuals/search?sid=MMHMxSearsx00019&query=113198111+CRAFTS MAN

And diagrams
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/part...ken=partSearch

Yoyizit 04-12-2010 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrover (Post 427409)

In the "Yoke and Motor" ass'y, in the parts list, there's parts
. . .
14 lever, bevel lock
. . .
19 knob, bevel lock
. . .
which seem to release the motor ass'y so the blade can rotate.

From the photos, the pivot is more or less centered above the motor so I don't think you'll be fighting the full weight of the motor when you get this released.

Willie T 04-12-2010 09:43 AM

I have essentially the same saw, except mine is the electronic version.

It all works from the front where you would be standing while you cut.

It works with only one lever... no pins. (At least mine has no pins)

The bevel lock is the one down under the handle. It has the white gauge face.

However this lever needs to be fully held to the far right - against spring tension - while you (or a helper) push down on the blade guard.

If not firmly held to the right, the saw motor will NOT tilt (bevel) because the pivot flange lock will slip into a detent hole or slot when that lever is released. Gotta force the lever hard to the right (away from the blade) and keep holding it there while you shove down on the top of the blade guard.

Here is the last paragraph in the manual on the bevel lock. Note what is in bold, red, and underlined.

There are five pre-set bevel angles at -90 °,
-45 °, 0°, 45 °, nnd 90 °. To unlock the bevel
lock when the blade is at one of these angles,
move the bevel lock all the way to the right
and turn the motor while holding the lock in
this position.

redrover 04-14-2010 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T (Post 427516)
I have essentially the same saw, except mine is the electronic version.

It all works from the front where you would be standing while you cut.

It works with only one lever... no pins. (At least mine has no pins)

The bevel lock is the one down under the handle. It has the white gauge face.

However this lever needs to be fully held to the far right - against spring tension - while you (or a helper) push down on the blade guard.

If not firmly held to the right, the saw motor will NOT tilt (bevel) because the pivot flange lock will slip into a detent hole or slot when that lever is released. Gotta force the lever hard to the right (away from the blade) and keep holding it there while you shove down on the top of the blade guard.

Here is the last paragraph in the manual on the bevel lock. Note what is in bold, red, and underlined.

There are five pre-set bevel angles at -90 °,
-45 °, 0°, 45 °, nnd 90 °. To unlock the bevel
lock when the blade is at one of these angles,
move the bevel lock all the way to the right
and turn the motor while holding the lock in
this position.

Waall, that's a what I be doing all this time. Ok, had to work up the the shoveing hard part :laughing:. Just tried again, holding the lever has left a bruised hand. (And trust me, they ain't soft hands :wink:.) Frankly I've been concerned I'll snap the lever off.
I'm unsure also if there should be a sort of muffled click with an internal pin release, something about preset degrees sorta indicates that, sort of like my Chop Saw. There has never been any hint of even considering release, the 1/8" movement is the heavy things dangling wibble wobble as far as I'm aware. Why I tried loosening the locked position to gain more release room. Seems to me that whatever slides along whatever, is frozen. I'm very handy (but not your average mechanic) I can recruit increased force capabilities, ya think just needs more manpower? It ought to just slip slide along and brute force is not going to mangle the whole kit and cabboodle?

Willie T 04-14-2010 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrover (Post 428523)
Waall, that's a what I be doing all this time. Ok, had to work up the the shoveing hard part :laughing:. Just tried again, holding the lever has left a bruised hand. (And trust me, they ain't soft hands :wink:.) Frankly I've been concerned I'll snap the lever off.
I'm unsure also if there should be a sort of muffled click with an internal pin release, something about preset degrees sorta indicates that, sort of like my Chop Saw. There has never been any hint of even considering release, the 1/8" movement is the heavy things dangling wibble wobble as far as I'm aware. Why I tried loosening the locked position to gain more release room. Seems to me that whatever slides along whatever, is frozen. I'm very handy (but not your average mechanic) I can recruit increased force capabilities, ya think just needs more manpower? It ought to just slip slide along and brute force is not going to mangle the whole kit and cabboodle?

I went out to the shop to give my saw a 'hands-on' bevel move (to be sure I wasn't telling you wrong) Works just as previously stated. Addressing the "frozen-from-non-use" theory, I have not set the bevel on my saw in more than ten years. Worked fine, first try. And we have a lot of humidity here in the Tampa Bay area too... I live on a peninsula, surrounded by saltwater only a few miles away in three directions.

Could it be that there might be some sawdust collected back inside the lever track that won't allow full travel all the way to the right?

There is no audible nor tactile 'click'. When the lever reaches that last 1/2" to 1/4" of travel, it just seems to silently lift the detent lock out of the slot (or hole, or whatever).

BTW, I also get that 1/8" movement when jerking on the motor if the lever has not yet disengaged the detent. So I'd say that just as soon as you manage to get the detent to slip loose, that motor should flop right over on an angle. FYI, the blade side of the motor (left, when you're facing the front of the saw) swings down, and the motor casing side (right) swings up. The handle does not tilt; only the motor and blade move.

I imagine you've made sure your saw blade height has been cranked up a few inches before trying to tilt the motor to a bevel position? This shouldn't make a difference, but it might.

Otherwise, I'm stumped. I'd just flood the thing with "Liquid Wrench", let it sit awhile, then blow it out with compressed air... sounds like, if the lever is going far enough, either the detent tang or spring has some corrosion on it, and isn't freeing up. The "Liquid Wrench" should help.

EDIT: Here's a possibility. Look at Figure 3, Page 76 of the manual... The 'exploded' view.

The detent (indexing) spring [#13 on the exploded view] may be either snapped, weak, or dislodged from the groove of the indexing pin [# 11 in the exploded view]. The wedge [# 16 on the exploded view] also might be worn and not doing its job.

You could try pushing back toward the motor when you move the lever... push away from yourself as you slide the lever to the end of its travel.

If there is any problem other than just a weak spring, this won't help. But if the spring is weak, this pushing in toward the motor might give the spring the help it needs to dislodge the indexing pin.

I'd be inclined to think that most likely it is just a stuck indexing pin. The "Liquid Wrench" and compressed air may help.

Yoyizit 04-14-2010 03:16 PM

With your exploded view and parts list in hand, you might have to disassemble some of it to fix/find the problem.

redrover 04-17-2010 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T (Post 428577)
I went out to the shop to give my saw a 'hands-on' bevel move (to be sure I wasn't telling you wrong) Works just as previously stated. Addressing the "frozen-from-non-use" theory, I have not set the bevel on my saw in more than ten years. Worked fine, first try. And we have a lot of humidity here in the Tampa Bay area too... I live on a peninsula, surrounded by saltwater only a few miles away in three directions.

Now that is a whopping Dang! Not sure when last put to bevel, at least 6 years. (Although, this may just be the same saw I first knew 40 some years ago that built and remodeled homes (only along coastlines) in AK, OR and HI. It's definitely over 20 years old, wish the manual had a printed date.)

Grunge in the lever track? Seems reasonable, parents weren't neat freaks. With the manual stressing the motor falls, does sound more like a friction grip/release. But with firm pressure I can get the release lever to the R end stop.

Yeah, cranked that puppy up high, didn't want to trade problems by wedging the blade in the table.

Hope renewed I'm off to flood.

And back again, was so hoping to report triumph. Close, I'm getting there. :)
My fear of disassembling things I'm not likely to guess how to put back together is strong but since 'To assemble Saw' was Motor on, maybe Motor off would be somewhere to start…about time for a bright idea.
Much progress made with motor off (duh.)

Old toothbrushes are always useful and I knew that broken large wooden crochet needle would be useful someday, somehow. Shaved it to a blade and scraped off various gunk and sludge.
Have improved my understanding of assorted pins (the swivel was also sticky) and function.


I'm finding a fair amount of what I assumed to be grease, maybe white at one time? Is a sick yellow tan (now) and not necessarily distributed where or how I'd expect. Tried to leave it where it was scraping off only the hardened brown on the pins. Inside the motor mount housing there had been some caked sawdust but pretty much just in the corners. The grease in there spotty streaks and at least half hardened or caked. Decided to spiff it up with some new, then checked the manual. The only mention of grease anywhere is in troubleshooting: clean track and lubricate with light grease, nothing in assembly or maintainence.
So mebe it is not grease but a sludge comprised of fine sawdust and lubricants? Dripped down from the track would explain the locations outside of the motor housing (and nastier.)

So, do you think grease ought to BE INside the motor housing? If so, I only have White Lithium, would that be good and how much?

I'm still working on getting the motor pivot support lock nut tightness figured out. At least I do have an idea how the whole thing ought to be working. Going to see what I can see about the 'The detent (indexing) spring [#13 on the exploded view] may be either snapped, weak, or dislodged from the groove of the indexing pin [# 11 in the exploded view]. The wedge [# 16 on the exploded view] also might be worn and not doing its job.' area now.
The release lever does seem to need pushing in as well as R. Considering the other gunk, maybe just more gunk in there too.

Aloha nui loa,
Lisa


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