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Old 04-08-2012, 01:36 PM   #1
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Workers Comp Question - California


Hi and again, thanks for the help.





Scenario:
  • I am building a deck
  • I hire a framer who is licensed but does not have workers comp as he states he has no employees per California Contracting Board
  • I have the framer put on the permit as the contractor (no owner builder)
He is obviously going to need some help with building a deck so ...

He brings someone with him to the job that he pays directly for every day of work who is not a licensed contractor

What, if any, is the risk here on my end if someone gets hurt?
And how would it change if the person my framer brought with him was also licensed in the same way (no workers comp)?

I was researching this topic today and there seems to be a blurry line between having an "employee" and hiring extra help (sub contract) for a job in which that hired help will make less than $ 500 on.

I am also pulling a Umbrella Policy from insurance but would like some clarity on this subject.

I understand Workers comp is expensive but really, with construction, there are few "One man" jobs...

Thanks again.


Last edited by beachfront71; 04-08-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:20 PM   #2
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Workers Comp Question - California


Quote:
Originally Posted by beachfront71 View Post
  • I am building a deck
  • I hire a framer who is licensed but does not have workers comp as he states he has no employees per California Contracting Board
  • I have the framer put on the permit as the contractor (no owner builder)
Did you hire him or contract with him?
Is he licensed to contract? Does he have GL insurance?

Quote:
He is obviously going to need some help with building a deck so ...
He brings someone with him to the job that he pays directly for every day of work who is not a licensed contractor
Does he show you that he has WC coverage for this person?

Quote:
What, if any, is the risk here on my end if someone gets hurt?
Substantial. Absent assertive contractural language to the contrary...
every bit of liability falls on the property owner.

Quote:
And how would it change if the person my framer brought with him was also licensed in the same way (no workers comp)?
What changed?

Quote:
I am also pulling a Umbrella Policy from insurance but would like some clarity on this subject.
Contact your insurance agent about whether that Umbrella applies to people you have brought onto the property in this way (vs some incident beyond your control)

Quote:
I understand Workers comp is expensive but really, with construction, there are few "One man" jobs...

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Old 04-08-2012, 02:54 PM   #3
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Workers Comp Question - California


Quote:
Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
[/list]Did you hire him or contract with him?
Is he licensed to contract? Does he have GL insurance?
Not sure, he gave me a written bid to do the job and I can accept it or not. The standard proposal which I would sign and agree to the terms.

He has a state license with a bond which I believe is what covers GL on the site ..

Quote:
Does he show you that he has WC coverage for this person?
No.. per the state license check he has indicated he has no employees and is thus exempt from needing workers comp

Quote:
What changed?
The person he would bring over to help has gone from not being licensed to having his own license as well (2 licensed people but both with no WC)



The question I think is if his help that he brings is considered and employee or an independant contractor .. My understanding is if considered an employee then he needs WC ... if considered IC then does not .. that is the grey area I am trying to figure out.
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Old 04-08-2012, 03:36 PM   #4
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Workers Comp Question - California


Quote:
Originally Posted by beachfront71 View Post
He has a state license with a bond which I believe is what covers GL on the site ..

The person he would bring over to help has... his own license as well
(2 licensed people but both with no WC)


The question I think is if his help that he brings is considered and employee or an independant contractor ...
The other guy is either another contractor that you have with another contract with...
or he is an uninsured day laborer.
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Old 04-08-2012, 04:14 PM   #5
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Workers Comp Question - California


Quote:
Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
The other guy is either another contractor that you have with another contract with...
or he is an uninsured day laborer.
Been down this road,everyone has posted good advice.
In Ohio if something were to happen my HO insurance is on the hook and it can get ugly.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:19 PM   #6
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Workers Comp Question - California


So I need to tell the contractor I am doing biz with that he needs to purchase WC if he plans bringing someone else to help him..correct?

Is he able to purchase it as needed or when he needs additional help like in my case?
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:02 PM   #7
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Workers Comp Question - California


Quote:
Originally Posted by beachfront71 View Post
So I need to tell the contractor I am doing biz with that he needs to purchase WC if he plans bringing someone else to help him..correct?

Is he able to purchase it as needed or when he needs additional help like in my case?
I seriously doubt he's going to run out and purchase it my friend. Its not like an auto policy.

... and its certainly not cheap.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:15 PM   #8
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Workers Comp Question - California


Got it and appreciate the responses
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:28 PM   #9
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Workers Comp Question - California


I wish every homeowner cared as much about these things. Good for you!
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:38 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by beachfront71 View Post
So I need to tell the contractor I am doing biz with that he needs to purchase WC if he plans bringing someone else to help him..correct?
No but I would make sure he is insured,I would ask your agent.
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:29 PM   #11
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Workers Comp Question - California


Sixeightten, thanks..this is all taking place 20 feet in the air and loosing your balance equals a trip to ER which I am not interested in paying for...

Ravenworks.
Can you explain your anger a bit more .. I thought someone on site working for someone with no workers comp = me getting sued if that person is hurt regardless of if they have insurance...
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachfront71 View Post
Sixeightten, thanks..this is all taking place 20 feet in the air and loosing your balance equals a trip to ER which I am not interested in paying for...

Ravenworks.
Can you explain your anger a bit more .. I thought someone on site working for someone with no workers comp = me getting sued if that person is hurt regardless of if they have insurance...
No anger here,in Ohio if you have a person doing work for you and they are insured it's on them. The WC doesn't come into play unless he(They,Them) have more than one employee,one meaning more than themselves.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:31 AM   #13
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Workers Comp Question - California


Ravenworks..

sorry in my post the word ANGER should have been ANSWER .. I was on an Iphone ..
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:13 PM   #14
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Workers Comp Question - California


License to be a contractor? We don't even license businesses here.

If you are uncomfortable, find a contractor who has WC for his entire crew.


-- Joe
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:41 PM   #15
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Workers Comp Question - California


I'm in a similar situation - considering two different contractors. Let's call them A and B. Both are licensed and bonded.

A: Has workers comp coverage, but he is a one-man show, and on the state website it only lists himself as the person covered.

B: No workers comp coverage, again he is a one-man show so this is not a requirement. However, his company does have an insurance policy for general liability.

So, do either of these situations cover the potential of one of the sub-contractors getting hurt? All the sub-contractors would also be licensed and bonded but I was told that some of them are self-employed meaning they wouldn't have coverage, while the subs that have employees do have coverage. Does any of this sound like a red flag?

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