Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > DIY Repair > General DIY Discussions

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-21-2010, 12:51 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: MI's Western UP
Posts: 599
Rewards Points: 500
Default

window upgrade payback?


I picked up an old house with what are probably 50yo+ original wooden windows, with clip in place storm windows.

what I'm wondering is how much I'd gain in insulation value with modern windows, or would I be better off just putting up the plastic on the inside in the winter, and put my money elsewear.

forresth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2010, 12:56 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

window upgrade payback?


Depends upon the windows, if they are sealed properly
If there is insulation in the side pockets.....or if there are weights /ropes
By installing new windows & doors my heating bill dropped quite a bit
Plus the house is warmer...less drafts...and less noise
My house is from the 50's
It had replacement windows installed
...but they did not insulate the pockets

Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Scuba_Dave For This Useful Post:
Tom Struble (08-25-2010)
Old 08-21-2010, 03:57 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,753
Rewards Points: 1,020
Default

window upgrade payback?


I think that Dave hit it on the head. A thermal image would most likely reveal heat loss around the window as well, so simply "replacing the windows is only part of the solution. Removing the old windows, properly insulating the cavity, and then installing new windows is a more comprehensive approach.
DexterII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2010, 05:41 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: west of chicago
Posts: 390
Rewards Points: 264
Default

window upgrade payback?


A modern window will have a R3.5 or better. ( U factor is the inverse of R )

Your lucky to have a R1 , even with plastic ( I used to use clay rope ) .

Now R3.5 doesn't sound like much but its a world of difference from a R1

especially where you live.

Comfort is worth a lot while its paying for itself also.

If I was a "yooper" year round I'd be doing every trick in the book I could

afford.

If it was a seasonal cabin with free wood for heat in an area that you'd

never get your money back if you sold it, different story.
High Gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2010, 05:49 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

window upgrade payback?


Just remembered
There is a 30% Tex credit up to $1500 thru the end of the year
If you spend $5000 on windows /energy improvements you get 30% back up to $1500 on your taxes

In order to meet the energy guidelines it was an extra $10 per window
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2010, 10:28 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: MI's Western UP
Posts: 599
Rewards Points: 500
Default

window upgrade payback?


is the tax credit only throught the end of the year?
forresth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2010, 11:32 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

window upgrade payback?


Quote:
Originally Posted by forresth View Post
is the tax credit only throught the end of the year?
Yes it expires Dec 31st
They may put a new Tax credit thru
But I haven't heard of a new one yet
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2010, 11:43 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

window upgrade payback?


With the storms you have an R-2. To max out at R-4 would be a considerable investment. Windows account for 25% of heat loss, even less if an older house with smaller, fewer windows than today’s floor plans (typical). http://www.explainthatstuff.com/heatinsulation.html

http://www.coloradoenergy.org/procor...f/r-values.htm

I would have an energy audit to find the best “bang for the buck”.

Think about it carefully: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...HiKsil4S_D_jgQ

How’s the attic insulation for your local area? Loose 35% there.
Pull a receptacle cover plate to see the type of wall insulation----- 25% there. Those two at 60% percent may equal close to the new window up-grade cost to only gain R-2 without the in/out side storms.

Air seal the attic before new insulation to prevent ice dams and heat loss. http://www.rd.com/how-to-seal-attic-...icle18158.html

You may have a balance of money left to install a thermal break on the studs, after furring them out for more insulation, if a DIY. Another option is to blow cellulose in the attic and existing walls: http://www.karg.com/pdf/Insulaton_de...and_Biddle.pdf

Be safe, Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.

Last edited by Gary in WA; 08-21-2010 at 11:48 PM.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2010, 06:48 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 3,118
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

window upgrade payback?


To answer the question, payback takes awhile. You can do the math. Assume savings of 20-30% on fuel bills. On an annual heating/cooling bill of $1000, you can save $200-300, not quite the cost of one quality window-installed. But there is a bonus in comfort. Besides keeping in more heat, drafts due to cold air falling off the old cold glass is gone. Quality insulated glass does not get cold like the old glass did.
Just Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2010, 11:20 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: MI's Western UP
Posts: 599
Rewards Points: 500
Default

window upgrade payback?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
To answer the question, payback takes awhile. You can do the math. Assume savings of 20-30% on fuel bills. On an annual heating/cooling bill of $1000, you can save $200-300, not quite the cost of one quality window-installed. But there is a bonus in comfort. Besides keeping in more heat, drafts due to cold air falling off the old cold glass is gone. Quality insulated glass does not get cold like the old glass did.

well, I think your season's estimate is a bit low for up here, but I see your point, and thats what I was starting to think too. There are other things to spend my limited resources on first.

I am thinking this will be a farily short term house, so I also have to figure in the claimed 80% ROI for windows too (im not sure it would be that igh in this market), so if we knock up the savings to $500 compared to the cost minus RIO, still not quite there. maybe if some realestate investments I am looking into pan out (current focus is on buy low, really low), that might be a good place to "hide" some money.

but then again, ROI + tax incentive looks like about 90% on paper. that would pay for itself a bit quicker.

Last edited by forresth; 08-22-2010 at 11:24 PM.
forresth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2010, 11:26 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

window upgrade payback?


We knew we were going to stay here for a while
So it made sense for us
Our heating bill has dropped by ~50%
3 tanks of oil down to about 1.25 to 1.5 tanks
And that was when we were keeping the house warmer due to my son being born
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2010, 12:02 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

window upgrade payback?


Take into consideration the average sized window in that average room may be 15 square feet. The two exterior walls, 8foot high and 10 feet long (minus the window) total 160 sq.ft. Add the ceiling- 100 sq.ft, equals 260- s.ft. IF the walls are now empty, and you insulate them (R-13) and add to the attic insulation, doubling (R-20), you could have R-33 over 260sq.ft. OR R-2,over 15 sq.ft. Which would be cost effective...... which would be warmer... I'm just saying: do the math and the research first. http://www.ecohomemagazine.com/energ...gy-claims.aspx

Be safe, Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 07:50 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: west of chicago
Posts: 390
Rewards Points: 264
Default

window upgrade payback?


I didn't put new windows in the last place I lived just because I knew I'd

never get my money out of it in the neighborhood I was in.

Comfort wise I probably should have because to get the humidity high enough

in the winter condensation would form on the glass.

Nose bleeds ( Me ) from too dry of winter air are no fun and neither is water

dripping on your windows.

Health can be a factor also.

High Gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Defog window recap greenmax General DIY Discussions 4 05-07-2010 05:00 PM
How to 'finish' outside of replacement window? KatieAK Building & Construction 9 04-02-2010 06:37 AM
help need to know how to replace windows wrapped in drywall caide3 Carpentry 4 03-02-2010 12:41 PM
Moisture on windows baum Building & Construction 56 12-22-2009 05:39 PM
Problem with window and everything around it malfunction Building & Construction 3 05-26-2009 05:11 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.