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Old 06-11-2009, 10:39 PM   #1
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


So I have asked questions on replacement windows costs etc, done extensive research into products, installers, and whom to buy from. I have also received some advice from the DIY community.

SO here are two quotes comparing apples to apples:

Company A 21 Vinyl Windows and Install: 22k
Company B 21 Vinyl Windows and INstall: 13k

Company C 21 Marvin Windows and Install(Aluminum + Wood Clad) 26k
Company D 21 Milgard Fiberglass and Install: 26k

The Marvin guy is looking golden, and the Milgard fellow is looking like a crook since I priced out the same windows on 1stwindows and it came ut to 9800.00.

Amazing. What a racket these things are.

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Old 06-11-2009, 10:49 PM   #2
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


Those ALL sound like better deals then the one I was quoted today--16k for 12 windows with installation.

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Old 06-11-2009, 10:51 PM   #3
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


DIY, 23 windows & 4 doors less then $4500
Plus some skylights
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:02 PM   #4
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


My father just got Penguin vinyl windows installed. $1100 each. I had no idea that window installation is so expensive. Yikes.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:10 PM   #5
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


Me either, I thought it would be half the cost I was quoted. My windows are old and will be tricky to replace--and have ugly storm windows outside. I'm getting more quotes to compare.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:00 AM   #6
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
DIY, 23 windows & 4 doors less then $4500
Plus some skylights
Oh boy am I with Scuba Dave on this one.

Dignan99...read a few books/websites on it and go buy them from Home Depot and install yourself. Just do one window at a time. If you run into any snags, I'm sure the guys on here will be MORE than helpful - they always are for me.

Good luck!
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:55 AM   #7
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


Last year and this year I bought replacement Milgard vinyl windows locally for comparable pricing to that of 1stwindows, plus $75 each to install. The installer did a great job and we are very pleased with the windows.
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:16 AM   #8
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


I have to assume you are comparing exactly the same model, options, etc, on each quote??? As in comparing apples to apples, not oranges to tangerines, both are orange but completely different. And replacement windows will be considerably different in installed price from complete new windows. I can see some price differences in product, if one guy is huge and buys windows by the boatload, and the other guy is small and can't get the same price breaks. Same, but opposite with the size of the installation staff. The big guy has more overhead, and will be more expensive that the little guy.
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:32 AM   #9
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcare View Post
Me either, I thought it would be half the cost I was quoted. My windows are old and will be tricky to replace--and have ugly storm windows outside. I'm getting more quotes to compare.
I was curious as to what makes your windows 'tricky to replace'? Granted, some windows are easier (i.e. wood windows vs. steel casements) but unless they are very high and have to have a ladder on both the inside and outside, I've not run into many windows that would require a huge installation costs.
As to the variance of window qoutes, yes, I've seen this many times. Sometimes it was due to differences in the windows, most often had to do with the different overheads/fixed costs and profit margins that different companies had. Another is cost of product. For example, one local company offered the same window but could not buy the window for as as much as we charged for the same window installed because they were not a member of the franchise that had a deal with the manufacturer (Alside),
It often amazed me what some companies would charge for installation, but I guess someone was willing to pay it or they would not have been in budiness (though many are not still around today).
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:45 AM   #10
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


DIY for me is the only way i CAN go. 12 windows, all new, less than $1,000 installed by me.
do yourself a favor if you're building and call around for 'mis-measured' windows from builder supply stores....
my 6'x6' picture windows were $100.00 each, brand new.... my son's room's 2 windows, $70.00 each, 4'x3' kitchen window, $75.00, and so on.
the two in the new dining room i framed out first (oops) were $135.00 each because i had already framed around old windows just to get through last winter. that sukked, but it was my booboo, and i paid for it.

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Old 06-12-2009, 07:53 AM   #11
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


Compare your pricing to what I paid four years ago and allow for inflation to see if you are getting a fair deal based on type, size and features.

Pella Double hung, triple pane, low E replacement wood window with aluminum outside clading, Designer Series, 39-1/2 inches wide by 45 inches long.

Cost of each window: $592.60. I installed the windows.

The pricing on both Marvin and Milgard seem high either in the cost of window or labor. You would be paying $1280 average for each window. But there may be more details that were left out. For instance: Do the installers need to add aluminum trim to the outside frame. What about the finished interior trim; is that included in the pricing? If your windows are near the same size as mine and triple pane (they are heavy) two experience installers can take out an old window and fit a replacement window in about 45 minutes to an hour. One man can do it if they are double pane. Labor time for caulking and installing outside or interior trim and painting or staining will add to the cost.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:15 AM   #12
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


A few years ago I looked at going into window sales. I discoverred in Ontario alone there are over 1100 window manufacturers. Here's the thing, a number of them buy identical extrusions from several different plastic companies, some virgin PVC, some non virgin, many use the same seals and glass as competators. Then it comes down to quality of assembly, warranty and installation.
It was an interesting tour of a medium sized factory, family business, nice quality, until it came down to how they sell. No Thanks!!!!
There was well over 120% sales markup in the products, plus installation labour leaving huge bargaining space and "interest free " options and buy it now and save tactics.
When you're at the kitchen table looking at quotes guesss what, your neighbour doesn't have the same size windows so it's pretty hard to compare pricing, so your only tool is your ability to size up your house and go from there.
There are some great windows out there and some excellent manufacturers but unless you can walk around and see them installed, in a near identical home I would be looking at and pricing doing the work myself as a comparison. It's not rocket science, but you really want to see cross cuts of material and air pockets in extrusions, vinyl or aluminium, and compare wood types as well, then look at hardware....
I met a guy who just did hardware repairs on builder grade windows for one company all day lonng , full time!
Also, new windows will certainly add value and curb appeal, but as for a big gain in energy savings, not so sure of the payback... pretty long term.
In the end if you go with a sales company, get referrals and do a drive by to see the work. Like anything else installation is key. Any good company needs to make a decent margin to pay good employees and back your warranty so cheapest isn't the answer.

Take your pick any 2 out of 3 :

Low price
Great quality
Excellent service
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:09 PM   #13
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


Take a look at my post from last year and note the first 2 pics. As Atlantic states there is no solid way to quote for windows. I eneded up having to reside that section of the house because in order to get the rotted sheathing/studs off I had to take siding off.

Window project that turned into a bit more

But I agree, DIY is the way to go!
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:17 PM   #14
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


creamaster: Thats some of my fear. Opening up a can of worms, that NEEDS to be fixed, but if I take it up myself thats alot of potential time I don't have.

I've been reading posts, and getting pumped...very close to attempting to do it myself.

_G
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:33 PM   #15
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Why Windows sales people are the worst.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dignan99 View Post
creamaster: Thats some of my fear. Opening up a can of worms, that NEEDS to be fixed, but if I take it up myself thats alot of potential time I don't have.

I've been reading posts, and getting pumped...very close to attempting to do it myself.

_G
Hey G,

I am looking at windows myself and hear you loud and clear.

My biggest concern is shoddy installation. I dont mind paying a premium for an "expert" to install my windows. But with my luck, I get the noob installers who have been on the job 2 weeks.

So if there is something that needs repairs during the install, will the crew even be able to diagnose it let alone make any form of repair? Or even try. I would bet a large number would just do "their" install and ignore any issues.

I've toyed with the idea of doing my own install, but I want it done RIGHT and I am not overly confident in my abilities in that area. (See my signature at the bottom).

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