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-   -   who needs what insurance? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f2/who-needs-what-insurance-17661/)

hobbyguy2002 02-26-2008 07:14 AM

who needs what insurance?
 
Here is a situation I have found when looking for a roofer. Company A sells the product when asked to see company A's insurance there sheet says they have liability coverage. When Company B the sub contractor shows up to take a look at the job(company B will actually do the tear off and install of the new roof) I ask for Sub contractors B coverage he produces a sheet that shows he only has liability coverage. I don't see workers comp coverage with either company A who I pay the money to or Company B who is doing the work and up on the roof. What coverage should either have and what is my responsibility I would like to know before I put any money down or have anyone on my property so I keep my nose clean I really don't want a law suit if a person falls off my roof. Thanks

oldfrt 02-26-2008 08:31 AM

No one should start working till you see a WC policy.
If the sub has employees,the responsibility will fall on you if there is an injury .
Some states do not require WC for sole proprietors,but very few roofers work alone so I'd insist on a WC policy(currently active,check the dates)either from the seller or installer.

jerryh3 02-26-2008 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfrt (Post 101856)
No one should start working till you see a WC policy.
If the sub has employees,the responsibility will fall on you if there is an injury .
Some states do not require WC for sole proprietors,but very few roofers work alone so I'd insist on a WC policy(currently active,check the dates)either from the seller or installer.

I agree. In Maryland, as a sole proprietor, I wasn't required to have WC, just liability. I only worked with two other guys, so we each carried our own insurance and billed the GC's individually. I doubt a roofing company would be set up like this, so you really should insist on seeing their WC policy before they start.

PKHI 02-26-2008 04:43 PM

As a home owner, who ever YOU deal with, sign with, pay, should show you his liability and comp. If his subs do not have comp, they are covered under the GC's comp.

LawnGuyLandSparky 02-26-2008 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKHI (Post 102026)
As a home owner, who ever YOU deal with, sign with, pay, should show you his liability and comp. If his subs do not have comp, they are covered under the GC's comp.

What?

Company A that sold the job will not cover company B's employees.

When subcontractor B shows up and doesn't prove (and you always verify this yourself with the agent, do not accept the sub's own "proof") there's a worker's comp policy in place, tell them to take a hike. You'll probably get a song and dance that the actual "workers" are not actual employees either, they're subs of the sub working piece rate, and are responsible for their own coverage too. Don't buy it.

Last year a local roofer had a laborer fall off the roof and became parylized. He's in deep doo-doo, and the homeowner, who is ultimately responsible under this underhanded arrangement, is losing the house.

PKHI 02-26-2008 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky (Post 102034)
What?

Company A that sold the job will not cover company B's employees.

Last year a local roofer had a laborer fall off the roof and became parylized. He's in deep doo-doo, and the homeowner, who is ultimately responsible under this underhanded arrangement, is losing the house.

If the GC has comp, and has liability coverage for employees, that is all the HO needs.

If the GC chooses to hire someone that does not have comp, they are covered under his policy if it is set up that way, if its not set up properly, and he is passing him self off to HO's as being on the up and up, and there is an accident the GC's policy will cover it, and if it is no set up properly the GC will be in a mess with the insurance company. The HO NEED NOT WORRY.

I sell complete maintenance free exteriors, I carry liability and comp, and all of my subs have the same.

When I was just starting out I was a sub, and could not afford comp so I worked under the GC's comp, that was perfectly OK

What I AM WORRIED about here, is the organization of this business. When I sub out a roof the HO never knows, they deal with me and only me, I am the one that sells the job, measures the job, delivers material, inspects the job, and assume 100% responsibility for the job. I would be weary of a GC that has to invite his roofing sub over to meet with you. If a Home owner has to discuss anything beyond "would it be easier for you if I move my car into the street while your working" with a sub contractor, then there are some serious issues that need to be addressed.

AtlanticWBConst. 02-26-2008 05:25 PM

In MA, a permit is required for a re-roof.
Proof of a Workmans Comp Policy is required, unless it's a sole proprietorship.
There is a form that is required to be filled out and mailed to the state, per town application.

The whole point of it is to protect Home Owners.

PKHI 02-26-2008 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlanticWBConst. (Post 102043)
In MA, a permit is required for a re-roof.
Proof of a Workmans Comp Policy is required, unless it's a sole proprietorship.
There is a form that is required to be filled out and mailed to the state, per town application.

The whole point of it is to protect Home Owners.

You Also need a license to sub out work, even if the work doesn't require a license.

Ron6519 02-26-2008 05:36 PM

In NY a Corporation is exempt from Workers Comp if the company has no employess and less then two officers.
Ron

AtlanticWBConst. 02-26-2008 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron6519 (Post 102052)
In NY a Corporation is exempt from Workers Comp if the company has no employess and less then two officers.
Ron

Isn't that the same as a sole proprietorship?

nap 02-26-2008 06:29 PM

So anyway, you did not provide the germane state. Some states do not require WC under certain situations so without the state to even begin to look for an answer, everything else is just guessing.

Ron6519 02-26-2008 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlanticWBConst. (Post 102069)
Isn't that the same as a sole proprietorship?

I don't understand the question.
Is the question, "Is a sole proprietor the same as a Corporation?" The answer would be no, as a Corporation has officers, the other doesn't.
Is the question, "Does a Corporate structured company share the same Workmans Comp guidelines as a sole proprietor?" Again, I don't think so because one of the stipulations has to do with the catagory of officers, which the sole proprietor doesn't have.
The sole proprietor might have a "pass" on Workmans Comp for other reasons, but I don't know what they are.
Ron

AtlanticWBConst. 02-27-2008 07:37 AM

Oh, ok...I see. You are referring to the state's interpretations in regards to corporations only.


Side Point: The majority of single person-operation businesses are not incorporated, but are either LLC's or simple Sole Proprietorships. These, in MA, do not require Proof of a WC policy.

Leah Frances 02-27-2008 07:40 PM

Contact your state contractor board. They should be able to easily tell you what is required in your state.

Call your HO insurance and ask them if they will look over the contractor's insurance - We pay premiums for a reason: service. My HO has never balked at looking over these sorts of things. Might as well get an expert you already pay for.

Double A 02-29-2008 01:05 PM

Depending on the laws in your state, both companies should have general liability insurance and workers' compensation insurance. Now these are general guidelines. Who has to have what and why vary from state to state. Check with your insurance agent or homeowners insurance provider to be sure you're covered and to be sure how to best protect your policy from having a claim made against it by an employee of one of these two companies.

When providing proof of insurance, it should come directly from the insurance provider or from their agent. It will come in the form of a certificate of insurance. Don't accept a copy provided by either company a or company b.

When the certificate comes from the agent or the provider, you are assured that the policy is still in effect and valid. There is nothing to stop a company from buying a policy and then canceling it just to have a certificate in their files to show homeowners. Having a piece of company literature or advertising that claims they have insurance is even less effective.


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