When can I fire the builder?

mt232

I hired a builder to do demo, framing, roof, windows, siding and gutters of an add-a-level. He promised 4-6 weeks completion, we're now in week 7. Last week he wanted a 20% payment which was due after roofing was completed. I refused because I had a list of incomplete items, including no ridge vent on southern 4 feet of roof, plus numerous missing studs, disconnected awnings, un level floors, 4 windows installed (replacements, rather than new and without nailing fins) out of 7.

On Friday, I told him I'll be happy to pay once the work was completed, after not taking my calls on Saturday, he called today to tell me than they had done many favors for me without charging for them, but now must charge.....of course that is unacceptable so I pointed out the things they did incorrectly (The framer covered the whole roof with plywood, before completing the rafters, then while the framer was not working due to an issue with the GC, the roofer arrived and completed the roof over that area, so 2 rafters were "slipped in underneath")

So now my question is, after all this mess, when can I tell him to get lost? If he left today and I had to hire someone else, I'd probably be just a few dollars ahead after damages.

KUIPORNG

I guess depends on how much you paid him already... if you didn't pay any of his labours.... I don't think it is really fair... if you had paid his labour... then you have all the right... if you had only paid part of his labours... then it becomes a difficult to draw the line....

mt232

I owe 11,000 for the remainder of the job. The siding and gutters and 3 windows haven't even been delivered yet. I think if he has financial issues, it is because he is juggling too many jobs.

KUIPORNG

I think if you paid all the materials already installed or to be delivered...

then if you paid all his labour... you have ever right to fire him

if you only paid all the materials but none or vey little of his labours... you probably will have a fight with him...

the best is you and him come to a reasonable settlement on the labours... the material cost you have to pay for it 100% though...

mt232

I agree, as a matter of fact I'd be happy to have him finish and pay him everything......but how long should I have to wait for that to happen? today makes 8 out of 12 days they have not worked. Of course if I want to settle-up with him as you suggest, he'll downplay his profit margin and ovrstate his labor cost.

digthisbigcrux

Sounds like this guy's "behind the 8-ball" getting new jobs to pay for previous jobs. Chances are this guy'll be running a forklift at Home Despot in a year and if you have any problems with your poptop, good luck backbilling or suing him.

Some contractors can pull out of this kind of spiral but chances are he won't.

AtlanticWBConst.

I am sorry to say:

We are watching this happen right now with a certain 'Bozo'. He's horrible, doesn't know the first thing about proper construction - just sees green. He gets jobs by advertising. He uses a computer program to do his estimates (instead of experience). We have been doing different aspects of his jobs and rescuing him from irate home owners for several months. Not any more. He owes the electrician $9,500.00 for back jobs, and the electrician is a good friend of mine.

Last straw, was him taking a down payment for an addition. Problem is that he had a contract for this addition that he listed for about $80,000.00 (budget) > He wanted to hire us to do all the work. (At this point I did not know that he had a signed contract or accepted a payment)
1st meeting; Right off the bat, I politely told him that the layout he showed me was completely dimensionally wrong (too many rooms for the space) and that the budget was way off.
Never the less, I told him I would run the numbers for him (Costs).
I Spent 2 weeks compiling real quotes and real expenses (not computer ones) ..... I ran the numbers and came out with about $160,000.00 to complete all work. (2 levels, 4 bedrooms, 2 baths, -master bath and master bed, full utility upgrades, re-siding existing house and replace all windows - add 2 bays) Found out he hadn't even checked with the town, nor even considered that the utilities would need upgrading - (as well as many, many other things that should have been looked into or taken care of prior to a signed contract and taking a deposit)

The Problem with computer programs is that they don't realistically take everything into consideration.

I know that he can't give the money back because it seems very obvious that he spent it, and I know that the job can't be done for the budget that he gave....not to mention the pathetic mickey mouse penciled layouts that won't even fit into the sf. of the addition.

When I found out that he had already taken a large down payment...I was really disturbed by the whole thing....That was the last straw. (FWIW - there were other red flags)
I had a scheduled meeting with the home owner to help them revise his mickey mouse pencil drawings.
I met with the HO looked him in the eye, said what I needed to say (Without saying any names -I told him to watch out for inexperienced contractors) and told them that we (my company) would not be able to do the job - because it couldn't be done, and no experienced contractor would be able to do it, based on the 'parameters' that had been set. (We had no signed or written aggrements with anyone at that point).

We have severed all work relations with this incompetent goof...my conscience feels better. (The HO has our number if he needs more information .... 'down the road' - (like a list of other unhappy customers and people this guy owes money to)
I was really worried for the HO losing anymore money. We'll see how this pans out.... The way it's going, I'll probably be reading about him in the papers before long....because he is still out there supposedly getting more 'work'...

__________________
- Build Well -

AtlanticWBConst.

FWIW - I posted the last experience, not to make people or home Owner's paranoid about General Contractors.

Thoughts to ponder:

Don't rush into things when it comes to finding the right contractor.
Don't look at the bottom dollar as a factor... because you will most often get what you pay for. Often low prices can mean inexperience, miscalculated costs, low quality work/service...as well as unfinished projects.

I've stated this before:

Get trustworthy references - not old references...some recent ones too.

Interview contractors as if they were the teenage kid taking your 16 year old daughter out for her first date ..... or to the prom.

Find one that fits you comfortably. That understands your wishes, your concerns, your tastes, your 'vision', One that offers good suggestions, (i.e.- ways to save money by using different materials or changing choices) etc....

__________________
- Build Well -

mt232

I agree with you, unfortunately these guys are giving the profession such a bad name. I couldn't use my brothers builder (a very expensive builder) because he committed suicide over his issues, and my sister was fighting with her builder. My only saving grace is that its relatively small and just the shell. One way or another, he's either done, or out within a week.

Thank you to all the pro's who are here with your advice. I know your answers don't give me experience, but the logic behind them give me enough to know if my job is being done right.