Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > DIY Repair > General DIY Discussions

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-28-2013, 12:25 PM   #61
Member
 
47_47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Springville, NY
Posts: 1,456
Share |
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
A huge problem with how the world works in general is bad communication/lack of knowledge. People should know that some contractors (and I include handymen in that category) could charge $40 and hour and less and make a good, honest living and get the job done well, and even build the closet I was talking about for $560 - $700 rather than the $2000 quoted on the other forum.
Maybe you should lead by example and ask your boss for a pay reduction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Maybe some contractors can't stay in business if they charge under $2000 but I'm not going to pay more than twice the price just to give someone with business model that's optimized for something else my little closet job, unless for some reason I'm pretty darn worried about the quality of work I'd get from the $40/hr guy compared to the guy will the alleged extra overhead.
You asked for a price, got one and are not obligated to have anyone do the work... Supply and demand is a free market system not a FREE market.

__________________
What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it.
47_47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 12:40 PM   #62
Bill Kearney
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bethesda, MD USA
Posts: 1,911
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
A huge problem with how the world works in general is bad communication/lack of knowledge. People should know...
Amen brother, you're spot-on. Trouble is people don't know and don't have enough of this kind of work done to build anything resembling a useful amount of knowledge about it. And it's damned expensive educating themselves. Possibly just as expensive as it is for a contractor to afford 'educating' them only to have them take that knowledge and attempt it DIY.

It's an eternal problem, not just limited to any one profession or type of customer.
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 02:37 PM   #63
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 66
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SquishyBall View Post
Could you imagine if every profession did this?

Customer: "Why does my $20 entree cost $120 on the bill"?

Owner: "Because this is a privately owned restaurant. I have to add on to cover my workers comp, social security, utilities, liability, medical, auto, gas, time at Costco, shipping, deoderant for my employees (your server did smell nice, right?) and aspirin to deal with you. See? It says right there, all orders come with a $100 fee to cover these things."

That'd be silly. Your costs of being employable are your costs. They don't concern the customer. What matters to the customer is one thing... THE PRICE TO GET THE JOB DONE SATISFACTORILY. That is all that matters. Because that is so important, this thread was started to gripe about why contractors seemingly often, despite doing this for a living and likely having fixed 1000 cracks in their life, can so rarely quote a price.

In fact some contractors have said they don't even understand each others' pricing. How on Earth could a customer understand it then when it is so arbitrary and varied?

That I think is the OP's general gripe. That a basic job (like filling a simple crack) should be able to be described on the phone as "Barring any complications, it'll be around $500 to injection fill a crack". Yet you don't find that.



It's sounding like you're saying a customer should pay for the fuel for someone to do their job. Really? I drive to work. Nobody pays for my fuel. That serves to reduce my post-tax discretionary funds. And the customer should pay your income tax?

As you said, the reason contractors generally won't quote, is because this is BUSINESS. It is the eternal dichotomy between customer and provider... the customer wants to pay the minimum while the provider wants to earn the maximum. By not quoting out, one can get onsite and put the customer in a situation where they are more likely to say yes to a higher price. It is just BUSINESS and we're all in our respective businesses to make money. Giving a quote on the phone, it is simply too easy for the customer to decline and call another till they get a price they like, which leads to a net of lower prices paid. Nothing wrong w that. It is Capitalism at work. Thus I don't fault my concrete guy for not bidding on the phone.

This mechanic will not likely change, and it will forever be a sore spot for homeowners who simply want to be able to shop prices like w anything else.
Ever have a job with a company vehicle? Or just got a gas card as a sales rep or anything to that effect? It's an expense you need to budget for. It is billed into the price of any contractor that wants to survive more then 5 years in business. You may work at an office. Entirely different then driving to 4 appointments in a day in various locations. You wouldn't be able to constantly afford that bill I bet.

And the food service industry is a different animal in the same environment. The food is marked up and includes cost of overhead, as well as wages. Are you truly ignorant enough to think that somebody is just pulling money out of their personal bank account to get the supplies shipped to applebees on a regular basis? LMAO

It is just broken down differently. A successful restaurant will serve more people in a night then I do in a year, so do some math. They break down their costs, maybe apply 50-70 cents to each item on the menu, and it adds up to cover these additional costs to OPERATE a business.

Take my advice my friend, and never become self employed. Because if you don't price things out at least along the lines of what I said, bankruptcy would be in your near future.
asinsulation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 02:47 PM   #64
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Utica, NY
Posts: 516
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
If it's a side job where he could go weeks without a job he could do it. And $40/hr is way above minimum wage so I think he could do it anyway, maybe making a somewhat less than "nice" living.
40$/ hr is standard for me to charge to cover my expenses and make a decent living.

The $40 includes all of my overhead and physically swinging a hammer 1600 hours a year. the other 600 hours I work each year is to market and sell myself.

so the
440/hour is actually less than 40 as I have 25% of my time that isn't billable at the 40/hour figure.
framer52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 02:51 PM   #65
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 66
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by framer52 View Post
40$/ hr is standard for me to charge to cover my expenses and make a decent living.

The $40 includes all of my overhead and physically swinging a hammer 1600 hours a year. the other 600 hours I work each year is to market and sell myself.

so the
440/hour is actually less than 40 as I have 25% of my time that isn't billable at the 40/hour figure.
Does this also include material and what not?

Figure $64000 a year, minus insurances, taxes, and operations, you are probably between 50-55 grand annually. If you were coming out of pocket for materials as well, I'd imagine your living on a tight budget!
asinsulation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 03:22 PM   #66
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Utica, NY
Posts: 516
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by asinsulation View Post
Does this also include material and what not?

Figure $64000 a year, minus insurances, taxes, and operations, you are probably between 50-55 grand annually. If you were coming out of pocket for materials as well, I'd imagine your living on a tight budget!
materials are always extra. I also charge the same for my helper.

I know what I make and it is more than what you quoted. i found the best way to make more is to leverage it by hiring help.
framer52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 03:36 PM   #67
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 25
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Since the prices of materials also fluctuate, another good way to start getting a ballpark figure is through your local home improvement store. Tell them what kind of project you have and they'll tell you how much material you need, how much it will all cost and how long it should take for 1 person. From that, add on 40 bucks an hour for labor and you have a ballpark figure.
Metro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 03:41 PM   #68
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 66
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by framer52 View Post
materials are always extra. I also charge the same for my helper.

I know what I make and it is more than what you quoted. i found the best way to make more is to leverage it by hiring help.
I just got that number with 40x1600. Now, having the labor help is a whole added expense. But don't try to explain to a homeowner like squish that you need to charge more for your laborers hour then what you pay him!
asinsulation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 05:03 PM   #69
Bill Kearney
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bethesda, MD USA
Posts: 1,911
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by asinsulation View Post
But don't try to explain to a homeowner like squish that you need to charge more for your laborers hour then what you pay him!
Correct, and that's part of how you qualify a sale. It's sometimes hard to do and sometimes you waste time/money making the determination. But when you do, you avoid wasting any more time/money/hassle trying to put up with the wrong customer for you.

I've found it useful to be 'too busy' or pretend to be unable to help with 'how complicated their particular problem is' as a means to avoid taking on a client like that. This way they only think of you once, during that qualifying period and don't go on to whinge about you online. Better to let them pass on to the next poor sap instead.
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to wkearney99 For This Useful Post:
asinsulation (03-28-2013)
Old 03-28-2013, 05:06 PM   #70
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Utica, NY
Posts: 516
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by asinsulation View Post
I just got that number with 40x1600. Now, having the labor help is a whole added expense. But don't try to explain to a homeowner like squish that you need to charge more for your laborers hour then what you pay him!

I never work by the hour anyway
framer52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 07:37 PM   #71
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 25,055
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
If it's a side job where he could go weeks without a job he could do it. And $40/hr is way above minimum wage so I think he could do it anyway, maybe making a somewhat less than "nice" living.
If its a side job. then he has another source of income. And doesn't need to build your closet to live. Its done for extra money. not as a way to make a living.


What do you do for a living. Do you own or operate/manage a company. Do you control the price of what your product/service is sold/charged for?
__________________
When posting in certain forums, knowing your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 07:43 PM   #72
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 25,055
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
And I remember an investigation that found the majority of air conditioner repair companies rip people off. Consumers have good reason to be wary of these companies and their charges.
You were probably watch one of the TV stings, that call up contractors that people have complained about. So that they can show those companies, and get better ratings. So they can charge their sponcors more money to advertise on their show.
__________________
When posting in certain forums, knowing your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 07:57 PM   #73
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,720
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
A huge problem with how the world works in general is bad communication/lack of knowledge. People should know that some contractors (and I include handymen in that category) could charge $40 and hour and less and make a good, honest living and get the job done well, and even build the closet I was talking about for $560 - $700 rather than the $2000 quoted on the other forum. It's also helpful to know that contractors actually admit (again on the other forum) that a handyman is sometimes the right person for a job such as building a closet. Maybe some contractors can't stay in business if they charge under $2000 but I'm not going to pay more than twice the price just to give someone with business model that's optimized for something else my little closet job, unless for some reason I'm pretty darn worried about the quality of work I'd get from the $40/hr guy compared to the guy will the alleged extra overhead.

I remember a few years ago building contractors topped the list in consumer complaints. I think dating services were contenders. And I remember an investigation that found the majority of air conditioner repair companies rip people off. Consumers have good reason to be wary of these companies and their charges.
I still don't get where you come up with your number. The general consensus at the other forum was 16-18 hours for the project. Probably about $4-500 in materials. You say it would take yourself a week to complete the project. Yet, you think a handyman is going to build the closet in a fraction of the time, about 4 hours or so???

And for the record, I could charge $40/hr, and survive. Mostly because I have employees that I would make a few bucks off of as well. But, after 14 years of risk exposure, 7 day weeks, unappreciated HO's, countless hours bidding, fixxing warranty issues years after installation, etc... there's no way I'd work for hamburger flipper's wages just because I "can".........
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 08:15 PM   #74
moderator
 
TheEplumber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,864
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


It's funny- A new member can come in here, make 1 post, walk her dogs, come back and post 2 more times and the thread explodes to 73 er.. 74 posts.
You'd think we were talking religion or politics
__________________
VOTE NOW!
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
TheEplumber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 08:16 PM   #75
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: New York City
Posts: 477
Default

What's funny about the Homeowners' naivete?


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
If its a side job. then he has another source of income. And doesn't need to build your closet to live. Its done for extra money. not as a way to make a living.
I understand what a side job is. There are people who work side jobs who just post a notice and wait for calls so it takes no significant time or money and they don't fail due to too little work and can save people money. But a couple of hours per week doing bookkeeping and returning calls is probably all it takes to be full time especially once there's word of mouth about your work. At $40/hr that's only an $80/week cost of doing business.


Quote:
Do you own or operate/manage a company. Do you control the price of what your product/service is sold/charged for?
I used to do freelance work and I'll get back to it eventually but I never set prices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
You were probably watch one of the TV stings, that call up contractors that people have complained about. So that they can show those companies, and get better ratings. So they can charge their sponcors more money to advertise on their show.
I don't remember who investigated. I just remember the majority of repair places doing things like filling up an already full freon reservoir causing freon to spill onto the floor.

Dorado is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ballpark price, contractor cost, dmub homeowners, estimates


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water tastes bad and looks funny bill74 Plumbing 11 08-09-2012 08:47 AM
Totally funny pics in an email - how to share here?? m1951mm Site Feedback and Suggestions 5 08-27-2011 06:58 AM
Homeowners And Safety. Roofmaster417 Roofing/Siding 0 05-03-2011 11:41 PM
Building Dept says homeowners can't do their own electric. WHAT??! skellies Electrical 17 01-30-2010 11:37 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.