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Old 07-27-2013, 03:22 AM   #1
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vapor barrier


im currently working on a concrete built home and im facing some challenges. We have extreme hot humid summers and cold winter . I used a dimpled membrane on my outer interior walls in the basement and i framed the walls with metal studs and roxul insulation . the question i have is do use a vapor barrier poly before i drywall? or not.

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Old 07-27-2013, 03:33 AM   #2
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Really need to know where you are located. Also, how close did you place the Roxul & studs? BTW, you do realize that metal and concrete floors do not mix, especially if there is any kind of moisture.

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Old 07-27-2013, 03:43 AM   #3
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yes im aware of metal studs on concrete floor . I used a vapor seal plate before installed my metal studs i also placed the metal studs 2" from the dimpled membrane wall. this project is in China
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:02 AM   #4
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What part of China. If you want some information, there is a couple topics going on regarding basements, etc., you can look at: Foam board necessary? Basement foundations a wavy mess - wanted to put up 2" xps

The only problem I see, is that steel is not going to last very long in that environment, unless you placed something under it, to separate the steel from the concrete (ie #30 Felt, heavy mil plastic).

Also, how is the ground sloped around the foundation, and are you sitting downhill of any water that may flow towards the structure, or uphill?

Can you post any pictures of your project?
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:53 PM   #5
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Im working in Jiangxi province , south of Shanghai. I did place 8mm poly under my metal studs . What i did to prevent any moisture or added humidity entering the basement i used a Dimple board membrane like i explained. I also added a di humidifier vent in every room , Most of the homes are built with concrete or brick partition walls but i felt by building the partition walls out of metal i should be able to reduce any added moisture from added concrete. I plan to use roxul batt insulation which is moisture and fire proof. I have purchased water and moisture proof drywall and i attend to prime the walls with moisture proof latex paint made by DULUX ICI. I went a step further by installing a tile membrane on the floor[SUPERSEAL PRODUCT} The basement floor will have radiant heat . My big question was do i need to apply a 6mm poly before i board i would i be better of leaving the batt insulation and just boarding on top ? in my country [CANADA] im required to have the 6mm poly because of the extreme cold winters . But here in China we have no codes that i can follow so i have heard mixed views on the vapor barrier, I myself feel i would need to apply the poly but i am asking others for there opinions on this matter Thanks Greg for your response
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:53 PM   #6
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Really cannot say, since majority of the structures in China, are so cheaply built, they tend to fall down during a earthquake.

If you want to apply Western type standards in this building, I say go for it. Problem is, you may find other issues with the local authorities in how you are doing this build, due to they may not like the extra steps you are taking, to make the structure stand longer than others around it.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:59 AM   #7
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Since the radiant heat is in the slab, you will not lose any heat from the metal studs. Hopefully a thermal break was installed at slab/wall/footing joint against direct contact there. IMO, spray sealer on the screw connection at stud/bottom channel as this will rust first from installation when removing the zinc finish, also any cut ends of metal. With the dimpled material up, water transmission will be minimal, it should drain to collect/pump out if really wet walls from capillary wicking. Interior relative humidity at/below 34% w. basement air 68*F. using R-10 (2"XPS) mainly at/above grade areas. Only safe to 25%RH w. R-5 (1"XPS) using Jan., Nov., Dec., temps for your location in China; http://www.chinasage.info/maps/jiangxi.htm

Keep in mind the 2-3 month lag of slab temps (may need heat to warm slab) behind surface temps for summer air condensation; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...g-your-basment

Steel studs are fine, w, precautions mentioned, no vapor barrier paint--- only latex, Fig. 12; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...ts?full_view=1

Air seal every 10' for fire; top plates also. no gap at insulation/f.b., F.b. the rims, ADA the drywall; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...wall-approach/

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:16 AM   #8
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Gary, you do realize the OP is in China don't you.
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:32 AM   #9
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hahah nice one Greg, Your right i am diffidently rock n the boat by trying to build a North American home to our standard construction practice. But i need to provide my clients here a well built home . So i thank you fro your advice . But still i need to ask . Would you apply a vapor barrier or not?
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll
Really cannot say, since majority of the structures in China, are so cheaply built, they tend to fall down during a earthquake.
Is that fact or your biased opinion on Chinese products?
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:55 AM   #11
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greg -

Many uniformed people have no idea of China and the possible construction benefits/products.

There some very fine huge projects (4 to 10 blocks square) there. In Kunming, a small SW Chinese city of about 2 to 5 million, I saw blocks of typical Chinese apartments. The buildings were 5 to 15 stories made from reinforced concrete or reinforced concrete block.

The particular unit I was in was on about the 5th floor. It had large balcony with a brick dog house. The bathroom had 2 toilet areas - one was a $7000 TOTO with automatic lid, ventilation and stereo and the adjacent area was the traditional "bomb site" toilet. - No idea how they managed to vent it.

They have access to almost all international construction products AND the money to pay for them. It is the largest auto manufacturer, but no Chinese cars are exported because of the Chinese demand. Buick Shanghai and now Ford are there trying to catch up to Mercedes, BMW and Audi.

Because of the legendary love or tradition many people (usually in travel stories) do choose to live the old way. You can also get some great pizzas in Shanghai or get caught in a 6 lane traffic jam of imported Mercedes & BMWs at 1:00 AM in some modern areas of Beijing.

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Old 07-28-2013, 11:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djlandkpl View Post
Is that fact or your biased opinion on Chinese products?
News stories of seeing multitude of buildings that have fallen over during land slides and earthquakes, and now the state of the Olympic village from non-maintenance of the structures.
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezza View Post
hahah nice one Greg, Your right i am diffidently rock n the boat by trying to build a North American home to our standard construction practice. But i need to provide my clients here a well built home . So i thank you fro your advice . But still i need to ask . Would you apply a vapor barrier or not?
You could probably utilize the info that Gary posted, but you have to adapt it for the area of the country you live in, to what would be close to the weather variances here in the U.S..
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:29 PM   #14
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Greg, yes I gave temperature averages for 3 coldest months in China at his specific city.

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Last edited by Gary in WA; 07-28-2013 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Easier to read and understand.
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:52 PM   #15
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Rezza, I think you need to consult local builders to determine best practices in that area. Certainly you will receive different opinions when you question multiple "experts" on any subject, but certainly methods have evolved that work best in that area. It is dangerous to mix methods intended for one area and use it blindly for different situations. I certainly do not have knowledge to be giving you advice on your situation. The hot humid summer is a little similar to southeast USA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Va...er_replace.jpg But again, the situation is different, because homes in the southeast USA will typically be wood or brick veneer, rather than concrete.

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