DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   General DIY Discussions (http://www.diychatroom.com/f2/)
-   -   Sound proofing (http://www.diychatroom.com/f2/sound-proofing-87294/)

god 11-21-2010 06:13 AM

Sound proofing
 
Not sure if this is the right section for this post.
I want to sound proof a basement room that is under two bedrooms. The room is about 12 by 20 and is finished. For other reasons, I have to replace the drop ceiling completely so I will have easy access. My house has the standard joists and there is another4-5 inches between the joists and where the drop ceiling will go.

I had already tried some sound proofing but it didn't seem to work all that great. I used both insulaltion (r12) and some white hard foam that my wife gets at the hospital. For what every reason, alot of it was coming 14 1/2 inches wide. I would shove the R12 between the joists and then squeeze up against the insulation.

From what I have learned is this may be the wrong way. I have read where you need a dead air area.

Any ideas or suggestions. I've read about using eggs cartons but thats not an option for me. It would take too long to collect

ccarlisle 11-21-2010 06:55 AM

There are several ways to do this and IMO a combination of all or several will do it; adding mass to the walls, using resilient channels overhead, Roxul mineral wool sound insulation, dead air space, soft furnishings, carpetting etc etc are all ways you can use to deaden both high and low frequencies from transmitting through the ceiling.

god 11-21-2010 07:45 AM

Good points. The bedrooms upstairs have a floating floor and in the basement, its a light carpet that may get changed to a floating floor, not sure yet on this.

Guess I am looking on what I can do in the ceiling using insulation and hard white foam. My last thought was between the joints, jam the hard 1 1/2 inch white foam between the joists but making it level on the bottom.
So a 7 1/2 deep joist would have the foam on the bottom leaving a dead air space of 6 inches. My question here is would it help to have a layer of say 3 inches on insulation in this dead area?

ccarlisle 11-21-2010 08:09 AM

Start with what you are trying to do: are you trying to soundproof the basement from the noise upstairs - or the reverse i.e sound proofing the basement from transmitting sound upstairs? Because that's where you start...the origin - and work out from there. Are these TV noises or foorsteps or what? High or low frequencies?

Sound transmits itself in two ways: air vibration and transmission throough solid materials. To prevent vibration, you seal the room just as you would air leaks for heating and cooling. Then you dampen the transmission of sound through the joists and studs using a number of methods.

But the white polystyrene won't do much. You could use it between the joists but you'd have to seal it all around to prevent air vibration. 'Iffy' at best.

god 11-21-2010 09:15 AM

The noise originates in the basement. My son plays video games in the room and I want to reduce the noise. I don't expect to elimanate it. I may move my poker table over there, depends on the sound proofing.

Since the drop ceiling is being completly replaced, the area will be wide open. What would you suggest? The only info I found when searching ws the use of dead air pockets with different areas or layers to reflect sound. I also seem to recall the use of plastic vapour type barrier I think.

ccarlisle 11-21-2010 09:26 AM

Ah, OK then. Well, first try to muffle the sound coming from the TV by increasing the soft furnishings down there viz carpetting, upholstered chairs, cloth curtains on the windows or along the walls, pillows etc. Then since the ceiling willl be open, put in Roxul Safe n' Sound mineral wool insulation between the joists. It comes in 3.5" thick batts, so leave a dead air space above the Roxul. If you don't have Roxul where you are, fibreglass batts would do.

Then investigate putting up resilient channels on the joists and putting up gyproc panels to increase the mass of the ceiling. You could use a vapour barrier under the Roxul, better than nothing but may not be worth the investment. But if you have it, it might help. Seal any electrical boxes or protrusions with acoustical sealant available at hardware stores. Seal everywhere you think air might travel between the two rooms.

Ted White 11-23-2010 01:35 PM

#1 Decouple the new ceiling drywall from the joists with one of a number of resilient clips systems. Use a "1-piece" clip for cost savings. That will cost under $100 and have huge benefits.

#2 Install R19 fiberglass if there's none there now. Get the least expensive insulation you can, as spending more will not get you acoustic improvements

#3 Use double 5/8" drywall. Nothing exotic. Just the $7 a sheet stuff from Home Depot, Lowes, etc

#4 Damp the drywall with a quality damping compound.

god 11-24-2010 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted White (Post 539323)
#1 Decouple the new ceiling drywall from the joists with one of a number of resilient clips systems. Use a "1-piece" clip for cost savings. That will cost under $100 and have huge benefits.

#2 Install R19 fiberglass if there's none there now. Get the least expensive insulation you can, as spending more will not get you acoustic improvements

#3 Use double 5/8" drywall. Nothing exotic. Just the $7 a sheet stuff from Home Depot, Lowes, etc

#4 Damp the drywall with a quality damping compound.

I was planning to use a drop ceiling again. I don t really want to close off access to this area.

Should the insulation fill the entire joist area or should I leave a dead air area between the insulation and the plywood.

Ted White 11-25-2010 07:54 AM

The placement of insulation doesn't matter. If you can't drywall the ceiling I would not spend time and money on any soundproofing measures.

god 12-27-2010 11:38 AM

Alot of good ideas, I couldn t use them all but what I did do was use Roxul safe and sound between the joists. I took the white polystyrene and jammed it between the joists which also helps hold the Roxul up. There is a dead air area above the Roxul , about 4 inches. I am going to fill any cracks with acoustical sealant.

I have no choice but to use a drop ceiling for other reasons. My only question, everyone seems to swear by egg cartons and that it will help kill the sound by mounting them on the bottom of the joists, with the egg side facing down. I normally discount these ideas as home made and also it would take me a very long time to save up enought. but, there is a chiken farm on the outshirts of where I live that sells these cartons. It would be very easy to still add another layer before I install a drop ceiling, do any of you think this would help?

Ted White 12-27-2010 11:48 AM

The egg cartons is an urban legend. Anyone that claims that an egg carton helps with soundproofing either just doesn't know any better or is confusing soundproofing with sound conditioning (reducing echo, etc)

Also I would not waste a nickel with the acoustic sealant. Your ceiling has no drywall, and there's nothing to seal

ccarlisle 12-27-2010 12:06 PM

Agreed. Some people put egg cartons on their walls in DIY recording studio-type rooms to break up the sound waves, trying to emulate the look of professional studios. This is IMO a very marginal practice at your level...

god 12-27-2010 06:16 PM

Yea, I have been hearing about the egg carton idea for a while. I didn't put any faith in it really, but before I finish the ceiling, I wanted to X the idea off.

pyper 01-01-2011 01:36 PM

There are two types of sounds I'm going to address. Low frequency and high.

High frequency sounds are really easy to deal with. Mass will absorb high frequency. Put up drywall and your problems will pretty much go away.

Staple roofing felt to the bottom of the ceiling. That will help.

Anything lightweight isn't going to do much. It's easy to prove to yourself. Put a stereo speaker on it's back and cover it with the material. Insulation, egg crates, carpet -- not much difference. Some benefit, sure, just not much.

Low frequency is a lot harder to deal with. That's because low frequency will travel through structural members. For low frequency you need to hang your mass from resilient clips.

Have you considered just getting him a gaming headset?

Thurman 01-01-2011 02:12 PM

You could try this, it did work in a friends house, but he had access to lot's of slightly damaged drop-ceiling tiles: With 12" floor joist above his basement, he put the damaged ceiling tiles about four-inches (4") apart withing the joists themselves. Then he did the standard dropped ceiling hanging just two-inches (2") from the bottom of the floor joist. I swear you could scream in that basement room and not hear it upstairs via the floor. The door to the basement stairs is the only real sound source now. Not to sure about noises coming from the bedroom to the basement :eek:.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:10 PM.


Copyright 2003-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved