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Old 05-19-2013, 12:21 AM   #1
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


Hi,
Im in the process of remodeling my bathroom at the moment and I need some expert advice on several things that have come up.

When i removed the garden Tub... it was not what I was expecting. There were pipes coming up out of the floor of the slab in conduit (so much for my square shower).
There is also a vent pipe for the drain coming up out of the slab as well and going into and up the inside of the wall. The pipe is right where my shower curb and frameless glass shower door are supposed to go .

So I know what your thinking: Why not just move the vent pipe right?
I talked to some experts and they said I should just leave the vent pipe the way it is... because I've got no way to run it that it wont mess up the "Flat Vent" ... If I move it, it may not get the air it needs to work properly and could cause my drains in my bathroom to run slower, etc..

I posted a video on YouTube of the "situation" I've got : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSzdX...rtcry1e8tigleU

So I thought that I'll just build around the Vent pipe and the PEx pipe coming up out of the floor....

I talked to some people and asked if I could build a 2x4 frame around the pipes coming out of the concrete and If I use Cement board, fiberglass mesh tape and RedGard membrane.... would it waterproof everything and they all said YES! Which was great news, but then I go to reading on the net and found out that your not really supposed to use wood to build shower seats, ledges or curbs when on a Concrete Slab foundation. I gues this is because of moisture...it's also because its hard to screw wood into a Concrete Slab.

They suggested using bricks or cement block "caps" (which are solid blocks made out of the same material Cender blocks are made out of). Then using brick mortar to hold them to the slab floor and to each other.

Then I would do a pre-sloap mortar bed.
Then use a rubber membrane over top of the blocks/bricks and then use Galvanized Wire Mesh (or lath) and form it to the size and corners of the curb to hold the membrane against the blocks/bricks. Then make a "Mud Curb"
Then do the PreTile sloped bed, then tile.

I need to know what the layers need to be when doing a Shower Pan on a concrete slab floor. I just keep getting short answers that are vague and I need detail.


I need some help, because I'm starting to "loose it"... One person I talk to says I can do it this way... and another person I talk to says "whatever you do DONT do it that way". do it "this way"... Then there's the Wedi, Kerdi, etc... foam shower stuff that's really easy to work with, but cost too much for my budget. Plus I just cant see building a tile shower out of styrofoam (even if it works, I just don't like the concept of it) I want a real, solid, tile shower.

I'll attach some pictures of what I've got and I would love to get some ideas, answers, etc...

thanks
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!-img_1488.jpg   Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!-img_1489.jpg   Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!-img_1492.jpg   Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!-img_1494.jpg  

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Old 05-19-2013, 12:31 AM   #2
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


here's a few more pictures...

I layed out the 2x4's (seen in the pictures) to give an outline of where the curb needs to be and where the shelf or ledge needs to be to cover up the PEX piping in the floor.


I know theres a simple solution to putting a tile shower in this spot. I just dont have the knowledge or experience to know what to do at this point.
Attached Thumbnails
Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!-shower6.jpg   Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!-shower5.jpg   Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!-shower3.jpg   Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!-shower2.jpg  

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Old 05-19-2013, 12:55 AM   #3
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


You are just going to have to move that vent line that is to the left, inside the wall. Cannot tell if that old drain for the tub goes under the slab, and where, due to the gravel fill. Can you get a better picture showing where the 2" goes from that P-Trap, besides the vent up the wall to the left?

BTW, wth is with that rat's nest of PEX that you have going on there.
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Old 05-19-2013, 05:08 AM   #4
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


Tubs usually have a 1-1/2" drain. Showers require a 2" drain. You might have some jackhammering to do.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:03 AM   #5
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


Boy! That is a mess with the PEX.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:02 AM   #6
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
You are just going to have to move that vent line that is to the left, inside the wall. Cannot tell if that old drain for the tub goes under the slab, and where, due to the gravel fill. Can you get a better picture showing where the 2" goes from that P-Trap, besides the vent up the wall to the left?

BTW, wth is with that rat's nest of PEX that you have going on there.
Hi
thanks for helping....

The pipe goes underneath the slab floor in the gravel... and I believe it meets up with the old showers drain thats to the left of that area.

I had the same reaction to that ridiculous mess of PEX pipe I discovered that has been hiding underneath my Garden Tub until now. What can I say.. looks like a lazy or extremly stupid plumber did this house. The HVAC system and electrical are terrible as well. I've re done a lot of stuff on this house... why not fix the plumbing too right? This house ought to be completely round because they cut so many corners on it when building... Needless to say I would stay away from any product SouthEastern Builders in TN builds because this is what you get. In my opinion its not a real house... its an imitation of a house so they can charge the full price of a real house.

We are going to be selling it in a couple more years anyway...but for the meantime..here we are LOL!!

Last edited by cufflinks; 05-19-2013 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:03 AM   #7
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


What are you going to do with the blending valve and what does it serve? It needs to remain accessible for service and adjustment. Looks like you'll need to relocate it or can it be reached from the other side of the wall? The rest of the pex manifold can remain as is
For the drain/vent- it appears to be 2" under slab up to the vent - only the trap arm is 1.5" - that will need to be changed to 2" from the vent tie in to the shower drain. What I'd do is bust up the floor as needed- extend the drain to the block out in the footing. I'd move the vent to that point also and from there I'd build the 2" trap arm to the propose drain location. Now the vent is out of the floor and tucked into the wall where it belongs.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:12 AM   #8
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by md2lgyk View Post
Tubs usually have a 1-1/2" drain. Showers require a 2" drain. You might have some jackhammering to do.
yes I'm aware and I was prepaired to replace the Ptrapp once I removed the tub, but I discovered that only the Tub drain was 1.5" ... it goes into a 2" Ptrapp and on to 2" drain pipe... so Im good there.

I just got to figure out what to do with that d#$@ vent pipe coming up out of the slab.

I think I've finally decided to just build my shower curb around it and the h@#$ with diging it all up, etc...
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:30 AM   #9
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


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What are you going to do with the blending valve and what does it serve? It needs to remain accessible for service and adjustment. Looks like you'll need to relocate it or can it be reached from the other side of the wall? The rest of the pex manifold can remain as is
For the drain/vent- it appears to be 2" under slab up to the vent - only the trap arm is 1.5" - that will need to be changed to 2" from the vent tie in to the shower drain. What I'd do is bust up the floor as needed- extend the drain to the block out in the footing. I'd move the vent to that point also and from there I'd build the 2" trap arm to the propose drain location. Now the vent is out of the floor and tucked into the wall where it belongs.

I dont really need the blending valve... I think they put that on the bath tub that was there to keep kids from scolding themselves. I may just do away with it completely and make my life a little easier. If the water is too hot and is scolding us then I can just turn the water heater down a little. What do you think?
I have to run those lines that are going to be the water lines to my shower valve into the wall so I can put tile backer board on that wall and tile on it.

The only part of running those pipes through the wall is that I have to make that 90 turn to the left (in the corner) to stay in the wall and make it around to the wall the shower valve is on... any recommendations on how to do that... will the PEX handle being bent that much? I've got some elbows I can use... if the angle is too sharp to make by just bending the PEX, but I dont know if an elbow with fit in the corner(inside the 2x4's)?

On the drain and vent pipe...
I talked to one guy and he called that type of pipe venting a "flat vent" and he said that I have to watch the angle of the vent ( as it comes of the drain line) so that it stays above the plain the drain pipe is at...otherwise it wouldn't get the proper air it needs 100% of the time and could potentially cause a problem. The drain pipe isnt set very deep (its just under the slab) so if I try to move the vent pipe into the wall Im going to have to use a T connection and run from that to the wall and I would loose my angle that I need to make sure that drain has air...

Hope that makes sense...

Thats why I was planning on just building my shower curb around the existing vent that's sticking out of the ground.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:30 AM   #10
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


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I discovered that only the Tub drain was 1.5" ... it goes into a 2" Ptrapp and on to 2" drain pipe... so Im good there.
Boy, didn't you get lucky?
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:56 AM   #11
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Boy, didn't you get lucky?
On that part of it I did.... I inherited a "rat's nest of PEX pipe instead though..LOL!!
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:44 PM   #12
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


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On that part of it I did.... I inherited a "rat's nest of PEX pipe instead though..LOL!!
Yeah, that's a real mess. Plumber must've wanted to use up all his crimp rings and elbows.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:17 PM   #13
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


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Yeah, that's a real mess. Plumber must've wanted to use up all his crimp rings and elbows.
That or a homeowner did all of that mess.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:48 PM   #14
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


First of all, could you add your location to your profile?

It might be nice to know the dimensions of the space, and which walls are exterior walls. For example, the wall which the vent comes down seems to have a footing under it. I think this is why the vent is brought out from the wall, in order to avoid the footing. However, it looks like the footing was knocked out for the drain line?

It looks to me like the space is about 5'-4" wide. I mean the wall with the cluster of pex on it.

What dimension in the other direction do you have to work with?

I suppose the walls are just furred out basement walls and have nothing to do with structure?

I think I would start by removing the walls. You know you're going to have to remove the sheetrock anyway.

Next, I would cut out the floor out beyond where you want your shower pan to be. You're going to need to relocate that drain anyway, unless you want one of those $400 linear drains near a side. So just take a 4x4 or whatever chunk of concrete out.

Try to make peace with that cluster of pex in some way. Maybe you can just fur out that wall far enough to put it all in a wall. Or reconfigure it to fit into a 2x4 or 2x6 wall.

If you can't get the vent down a wall, you can fur out the wall some more to allow space for it. Or, let's say it is 30-60" out from the other wall. Just build another framed wall there for a partial side wall, coming out maybe 12" or whatever it takes to incorporate that vent into it.

Now you have a big open area with no concrete in it and your supply lines are all squared away.

Lay out your drain so it is in the center of your proposed shower pan. Now I'm going to take you down the road of a curbless shower. You can decide whether you want to go with a two-layer system with a membrane in the middle, or a one layer system with a waterproof membrane applied on the top only.

If you go with the two layer system, then pour your pre-slope well below the slab surface, and lay down your membrane. Run the membrane up your framed walls and up the front, where it will terminate at the floor level.

Next, pour your second layer and you are done.

For the one layer system, get yourself a laticrete or similar drain designed for a single layer, and pour your concrete or portland/sand mix so that it is flush with your existing slab surface. Then follow the directions. You will apply a surface membrane to the floor and side walls.

Now you have a curbless shower. If you want a curb, add one.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:48 PM   #15
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Replacing Garden Tub w/Tile Shower on a Slab floor.. Need Help!!


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That or a homeowner did all of that mess.
No it wasn't a homeowner my wife and I bought the house new... it was a spec house. We were in kind of a hurry to purchase a house and we got a great deal on it... I knew things weren't 100% right in the house, but like I said, we're not planning on growing old in this one... so we bought it with the intent to sell it and move on.
Im only doing the bathroom remodel to allow us to enjoy the house a little more while we're living here and to help sell it when the day comes.

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