Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > DIY Repair > General DIY Discussions

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-17-2009, 10:22 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Removing vermiculite


Hello everyone!
I am brand new on this site today.
I was hoping someone could give me info on removing vermiculite.
We are currently selling our older home and there is a very small amount in the attic of one room, it has become a huge issue with every buyer, but anyhow we have decided to leave it to whoever buys. However e have purchased another home with a huge attic and it is full of the stuff, we do most of our own renovations and have for years, so we are prepared to purchase our own hazmat suits and masks, and follow the procedures that we have educated ourselves about and save ourselves 15,000-20,000$
Has anyone else done this? It may just be us, but this is beginning to look like such a cash grab, and there seems to be such a general air of panic surrounding it that everyone gasps when we tell them we are doing it ourselves.
Any thoughts would be appreciated
Cindy

hisandhersrenos is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 11:31 AM   #2
Too Short? Cut it Again!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,635
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing vermiculite


Where are you? Vermiculite was sprayed in as an insulation material?

Those of us who worked with it in the nursery and landscape industry worry about legacy contact with the stuff. I don't think it is going to prove to be what asbestos was but you never know.

It is light weight and will go airborne on you the minute you hit it with vacuum, or for that matter any airflow. Some particles will fracture.

Where were you planning to put this if even dressed carefully in hazard suits? The stuff loves static electricity and will stick to the suits you know. If you can get it out of your living spaces? Is it legal to be doing this yourselves where you are? Should this be a DIY project?

Where did you get the appropriate Hazmat suits by the way and should the fact you need them not be the ultimate clue you should not do this on your own?

Again I am guessing you are not in the US? Never seen vermiculite insulation here but Illinois EPA and US EPA would be all over me for trying to abate it with just a hazard suit and I would love to own (now that you hinted there is a market where you are and is warmer in what I call winter?) but am not certified to wear for vermiculite. Don't do this by yourselves.

Even if you could pull this off? Get it bagged? The fines for ever getting caught getting ridding of it under cover of darkness and with the best of freinds or mates?


Last edited by user1007; 12-17-2009 at 11:34 AM.
user1007 is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 11:51 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing vermiculite


Information on vermiculite insulation used in the US:

http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/insulation.html

Seems they think some of it was contaminated with asbestos
The concern with removing it yourself is spreading the asbestos
Since a homeowner is allowed (not recomended) to removed asbestos, the same seems to hold true for vermiculite

Quote:
EPA and ATSDR are not recommending at this time that homeowners have vermiculite attic insulation tested for asbestos. As testing techniques are refined, EPA and ATSDR will provide information to the public on the benefits of testing that produce more definitive and accurate test results
Seems they do not think it is as harmful as Asbestos
--its the asbestos mixed in the vermiculite that is the problem
And vermiculite is used in potting soils
Scuba_Dave is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 11:59 AM   #4
Master General ReEngineer
 
Bondo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chaumont River, Ny.
Posts: 3,683
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing vermiculite


Quote:
It may just be us, but this is beginning to look like such a cash grab, and there seems to be such a general air of panic surrounding it that everyone gasps when we tell them we are doing it ourselves.
Ayuh,... I Agree,... Right up there with 2nd hand cigarette smoke,.... Pretty much Pure Bull$h!t....

I bought 2 houses built around the turn of the last century,...
Both are Packed with the stuff in the attics...
I'm leaving it right where it Is,+ covering it with more insulation...
Leaving it undistrubed is no more of a threat than it's been for the last 100 Years...
Which is Zer0 to me...
Bondo is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 12:08 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing vermiculite


How old is the house ?
The mine that produced the possibly contaminated vermiculite closed down in 1990

Info on the mine & legal action:

http://www.seattlepi.com/uncivilaction/libb25.shtml

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/385037_grace27.html

Mine timeline:

http://www.grace.com/About/EHS/Libby/Timeline.aspx
Scuba_Dave is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 12:13 PM   #6
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,286
Rewards Points: 2,234
Default

Removing vermiculite


I am guessing the home inspector is trying to scare the potentials, you and the realtor, by believing that it needs to be removed. The best thing to do, is put it in disclosure, but cover with another layer of blow in. As long as you do not mess with it, just like asbestos, it does not become airborne.
gregzoll is online now  
Old 12-17-2009, 12:15 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Removing vermiculite


Thank you all for input. We are in Canada, and yes it is FREEZING!!
We can remove it by ourselves that is not a problem, as for disposal we have a depot right near where we live that takes hazardous waste for free so another plus. Our plan is to basically copy as closely as possible what the pro's would do, some just bag it and some use a truck mount vac system.
Most vermiculite/zonolite has asbestos in it, it was in a vein which ran through a mine in montana I believe,which is where most of this stuff came from.
We are aware that asbestos is not a good thing, the woman who lived previously in this house died at 94, that's good enough for us LOL.
We were really just wondering if anyone else had tackled this kind of thing.
thanks again
Cindy
hisandhersrenos is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 12:18 PM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Removing vermiculite


Our house is about 105 yrs old, the new one, the one we are selling is aprox. same age and 3 samples have tested posative, but yes it is often used as a negotiating tool and many homeowners lose thousands because of the hysterical panic it creates. The only reason we are removing it from the new/old house is because we need to update wiring, still some knob and tube being used and with an electrician up there moving around we think it would be safer to just get it out
C
hisandhersrenos is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 12:35 PM   #9
Mold!! Let's kill it!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,849
Rewards Points: 2,012
Default

Removing vermiculite


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondo View Post
Ayuh,... I Agree,... Right up there with 2nd hand cigarette smoke,.... Pretty much Pure Bull$h!t....

I bought 2 houses built around the turn of the last century,...
Both are Packed with the stuff in the attics...
I'm leaving it right where it Is,+ covering it with more insulation...
Leaving it undistrubed is no more of a threat than it's been for the last 100 Years...
Which is Zer0 to me...
Tell that to the people living in Libby Montana...........
Maintenance 6 is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 12:39 PM   #10
Too Short? Cut it Again!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,635
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing vermiculite


Quote:
Originally Posted by hisandhersrenos View Post
Our house is about 105 yrs old, the new one, the one we are selling is aprox. same age and 3 samples have tested posative, but yes it is often used as a negotiating tool and many homeowners lose thousands because of the hysterical panic it creates. The only reason we are removing it from the new/old house is because we need to update wiring, still some knob and tube being used and with an electrician up there moving around we think it would be safer to just get it out
C
Hysterical panic it creates? Incurable lung diseases being suffered by those who manufactured the materials or those like you that now want to justify having them and realize to be safe you need to dispose of them and cop a "Real Housewives of Canada" attitude because you have to?

It's not going to hurt anybody if you leave it alone and seal it if you are allowed to do so. Where I am, you would have to disclose you know about asbestos or lead to close on a place though. Not a deal killer, just a legal requirement here.

Worst thing you can do for your electrician is to send the stuff airborne.

Last edited by user1007; 12-17-2009 at 01:03 PM.
user1007 is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 12:44 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing vermiculite


Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsester View Post
And where do you plan to put it before your electrician works around? Landfill?
#1 Already answered.
#2 EPA does NOT recommend testing for asbestost
Its vermiculite that MAY be contaminated with asbestos, get your facts straight

Read the info in the links I posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Information on vermiculite insulation used in the US:

http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/insulation.html

Seems they think some of it was contaminated with asbestos
The concern with removing it yourself is spreading the asbestos
Since a homeowner is allowed (not recomended) to removed asbestos, the same seems to hold true for vermiculite

Seems they do not think it is as harmful as Asbestos
--its the asbestos mixed in the vermiculite that is the problem
And vermiculite its used in potting soils

Quote:
Originally Posted by hisandhersrenos View Post
We can remove it by ourselves that is not a problem, as for disposal we have a depot right near where we live that takes hazardous waste for free so another plus. Our plan is to basically copy as closely as possible what the pro's would do, some just bag it and some use a truck mount vac system.
Most vermiculite/zonolite has asbestos in it, it was in a vein which ran through a mine in montana I believe,which is where most of this stuff came from.
We are aware that asbestos is not a good thing, the woman who lived previously in this house died at 94, that's good enough for us LOL.
We were really just wondering if anyone else had tackled this kind of thing.
thanks again
Cindy
Scuba_Dave is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 12:46 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing vermiculite


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintenance 6 View Post
Tell that to the people living in Libby Montana...........
True...these people were living under the dust fallout for decades
Scuba_Dave is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 12:53 PM   #13
Mold!! Let's kill it!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,849
Rewards Points: 2,012
Default

Removing vermiculite


I can't speak to Canadian laws regarding asbestos abatement and disposal, but in the U.S., a homeowner can pretty much do as he pleases with his OWN asbestos. The problem is transportation and disposal. Pratically anyone can buy the gear to do abatement work. What you lack is the proper training to prevent contaminating your home with asbestos containing material for the next 20-30-100 years. Done improperly you can and most likely will move fibers from a relatively confined area into spaces where fibers can repeatedly become airborne. Once airborne, asbestos fibers can remain so for days, weeks, monthes. Once settled, only a slight disturbance can place them into suspension again. This means that occupants can continue to inhale some quantity of fibers over a long period of time. That quantity will be determined by how well or how poorly you perform your homegrown abatement project. You've already got the test results. You know it's there. Educate yourself as to the risks. In my opinion, I don't think this is the place to garner support for your idea.
Maintenance 6 is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 12:57 PM   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Removing vermiculite


Thank you Scuba Dave, I didn't mean to offend, just curious if anyone else has tackled this kind of thing, we would certainly dispose of the vermiculite safely, as stated we have a depot near by, maybe because where we are going there are alot of older homes, probably with the same issue. If it seems too big for us we may opt to just seal it in safely and cover with floorboards.
C
hisandhersrenos is offline  
Old 12-17-2009, 01:09 PM   #15
Too Short? Cut it Again!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,635
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing vermiculite


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintenance 6 View Post
Tell that to the people living in Libby Montana...........
And if you haven't figured out where to slip $5-10 in philanthropic donation this Christmas? They would be a great suggestion of mine.

http://www.libbyasbestos.org/


Last edited by user1007; 12-17-2009 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Added URL
user1007 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Removing old grass with tiller? gante Landscaping & Lawn Care 36 05-08-2013 02:26 PM
Removing subfloor nickdu Flooring 3 07-28-2009 08:34 AM
Help removing baseboards without damaging sheetrock Lighthearted Painting 3 04-05-2009 05:52 PM
prep walls after removing paper ponch37300 Painting 1 01-10-2009 10:54 AM
removing OSB Underlay?? maikenh Flooring 1 12-23-2005 09:28 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.