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Old 09-14-2008, 10:54 AM   #16
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Porcelain tile outside over wooden deck porch


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.....So what's the best options for such a project? I have a wrap-around porch I'm interested in covering. I know there are composite planks made for this purpose - but a bit pricey. Any other options??
Options for tiling an existing wood porch? Not really.

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Old 09-16-2008, 06:16 PM   #17
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Porcelain tile outside over wooden deck porch


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.....So what's the best options for such a project? I have a wrap-around porch I'm interested in covering. I know there are composite planks made for this purpose - but a bit pricey. Any other options??
I have a concrete porch deck and I covered this with rubber garden tiles.
These tiles are 16"X16"X1", come in various colors and have a brick pattern etched into the upper surface.
These are made from recycled car tires in Montreal, Canada.
Being rubber, they are not slippery and just laid in place. No adhesive is required.
The perimeter must be enclosed to prevent drifting! I used 1"X3" PT strips screwed to the deck!

Last edited by Wildie; 09-16-2008 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 09-16-2008, 09:05 PM   #18
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I hope I don't regret this.....

but I don't agree with any of the above posts!!! Where is all of this information coming from?
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:08 PM   #19
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I hope I don't regret this.....

but I don't agree with any of the above posts!!! Where is all of this information coming from?
Well, its a fact that I have rubber tiles on a concrete deck, wanna see a pic?
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:19 PM   #20
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Porcelain tile outside over wooden deck porch


I know I'm late to this, but I am a contractor and have done this type of work in my own home as well as others. I've never so much as had a grout joint crack even after 5 years of use. So strap in and pay attention...

First I recommend the the supporting floor joists be no more than 12" off center not 16". 10" would be even better. This takes care of the weight and deflection issues. The flooring is usually 2x6 pressure treated lumber as original flooring. First I nail down a reinforcing wire mess to the floor (may want to put down a waterproof membrane first so when laying the mortar down on top of the wire it doesn't drip down - I've done it both ways). Lay down an exterior mortar on top of the wire mesh at least 1" thick (some say 1 3/4) make sure you keep a pitch for any water to run in the direction you need. (for covered deck that I am usually doing this is not as much of an issue-but still consider), I this use a product called Red Guard that I paint onto the mortar bed (I also use to waterproof tile showers). This does 2 things, keeps moister out of mortar bed and also allows for more expansion of the tile on the floor during freeze thaw expansion times. I then do my tiling always using a grade 5 porcelain which has the least inherent moister content and can handle the exterior conditions.. Then grout as normal. The combination of the beefed up joists, the floating bed of mortar that negates the swelling and shrinking of the wood, as well as the added flexibility the Red Guard adds, creates a stable outdoors tile floor over wood that will hold up many many years. I've not had one fail yet and I do not use expansion joints using the above method.

I would be hesitant to uses backer board or cement board, not sure that it would float and move with the wood floor as well as wire and mortar. Take the extra time and do it the way I have laid out and you will be happy with the results. Caveats: I live in N.C. (but it does get cold here) and these are under roof installations (screened covered decks open to the elements but mostly dry - not completely) Though the principle should be the same either way. Good luck!
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:55 PM   #21
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he has 16"oc, 3/4 ply that he continued to see cracking/movement in, only used cement board under tile. please let us know how it works out. i believe there are probably methods and areas of the country where exterior tiling may work done correctly. i think you missed a few steps
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:17 PM   #22
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hdlern-Harry,

I won't argue but I will tell everyone else reading this that you won't find "that" method in any of the tile industries how-to recommendations in this country. In fact it is laughed at by most serious pros. Just be warned-that's all.

The use of any pressure treated wood materials in any tile installation is very risky business, pressure treated materials can be bad news unless they are KD pressure treated at the outset.

What good does it do to install a waterproof membrane if you are going to drive nails through the membrane to fasten down the wire? Just curious about that one.

"Grade Five" tiles have nothing to do with a tiles ability to resist freeze-thaw. Grade 5 is basically the scuff resistance attribute given to the glazed surface of a glazed tile, has nothing to do with the body of the tile. There is no such thing as an "unglazed" porcelain tile being assigned a Grade 5.

Porcelain tile is in fact suitable for outdoor use because of its low water absorption properties of 0.5 percent. Doesn't have to be a Grade 5.

Using regular Portland grout WILL NOT insure moisture won't get to the mortar bed - IT WILL.

A mortar bed cannot "float" if it is entwined with a wire mesh that is nailed to a surface. And.....one inch of thickness is not approved by the tile industry.

Floor joists don't have to be 10" on center or 12" on center to provide the necessary deflection suitable for a tile floor. Close-cropping of floor joists will create and improved condition but isn't necessary. Sixteen inch centers will work just as well. Six inch joists are not suitable for a tile installation and you won't find that recommendation in any of the industry sanctioned books either.

Deletion of expansion joints is also a fools mistake. The industry recommendations for use of expansion joints in tile installations is clear, especially if the tile is subject to direct sunlight.

The Internet is full of bad information from unknowing soles and the above recommendations is a very good example of what not to do.

Please don't follow that advice.
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:35 PM   #23
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Hey Bud,
No offense taken. First, yes 16"oc is just fine. I like to use 12"oc and double up some beams for extra stiffness. If I'm gonna warranty it I like to be sure. As for the water proof membrane on top of the 2x 6 pt boards, that's there just to keep the deck mud from oozing between the 2 x 6 boards to the open area below. This doesn't waterproof anything, I use Redguard on top of the floated poured deck mud to keep moisture out of it. Thought that was clear, maybe not.

Also not all porcelain tile it frost rated so be careful in saying any porcelain tile. Your wrong about the grading issue, the slip resistance is separate. And btw for outdoor use you should use a tile that has a high slip resistance for sure. As for not going over a properly supported 2 x 6 existing floor in the manor I laid out, just is not correct. A quick online search of some top professional sites bare this out. Yes, you are correct that 1" is not technically standard, 1 1/4 is often referenced as a minimum, none the less my real word experience has not had an issue.

Also the lath messing that is tacked down with wide green top roofing paper nails just to hold it while working, leaves at the movement necessary for it to work a floating floor.

It should be noted that I SCREW down the existing 2 x 6 pt floor before doing anything, thus insuring minimum movement for the structure. What ever movement that takes place is not going to transfer through that floating mud floor. The addition of the reguard allows for an additional 1/8 of movement on oop of what the mud floor already provides. That are other products like Ditra, ECB and nobel deck that will allow or 3/8 additional movement. Thought I think with the mud bed this is overkill. There's even a product called Ti-proboard that is made to go over 2 X 6 open exposure like this, that allows of only 3/8" of mud bed. I have not personally used it, but it is rated for such, very expensive though.

Lastly, as far as the expansion joints are concerned, if your area is 12 x 12 or smaller and done in the way I laid out, expansion is not indicated. I have done it this way on marginally larger ones and have never had one single issue. Not ever. This is real world... Now I agree, that the book says to do it, so to all out there, do it.... I think it becomes more of an issue for those who instead of using a thick mud bed, (deck mud) put down a plywood base and then a layer of cbu (wonderboard type product) on top of that. In which case I would really think a about using a Ditra type product and jointing properly.

Bottom line Bud, your entitled to your opinion, as we all are... But my real world experience (and many other professional opinions) very much disagree. If your framing will hold the weight and is built properly, and the procedures I layed out used, you will have many year (decades) of enjoyment. Just make sure the underside of the 2 X 6 flooring stays dry if not off the ground. If built right to the ground with dirt underneath, moisture might be an issue and a moisture barrier of some sort would need to be used... I should also state that all my installations are on raised screened in covered decks, and if the 2 x 6 boards are still green or newly installed, I wait 6 months for them to "dry out". Most of the movement will take place during that time...

IMHO of course....
Harry

Last edited by hdlern; 04-01-2010 at 01:51 PM. Reason: info
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:21 PM   #24
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That's all fine and dandy and you can defend your methods from now on.

Since this is a DIY website I think it is only fair that the visiting DIY'ers looking for answers know that your above method(s) aren't described in any industry standards anywhere. This is not to say your methods can't work or that you don't have Obama luck.

I'm too lazy to go back and re-read your earlier statement but I will tell you that the so-called ratings 1-5 (or whatever) only have to do with the wear-ability of the surface of the tile. Nothing more. These ratings are assigned as a result of testing of a particular tile surface and this is done on a voluntary basis per tile manufacturer. Just because a tile has a high PEI Rating doesn't mean it has to have a high COF (Coefficient of Friction) indexing.

One more thing...
ANY porcelain tile is suitable for use outdoors in most climates. The same thing that makes porcelain tile porcelain tile is also what makes it suitable for exterior use. THAT IS its ability, or should I say inability to absorb moisture. Porcelain tile has some the lowest absorbency of any tile, That's what porcelain tile is.

As far as " a quick online search of some top professional sites"...

BULLSCHITT! I know what "top sites" you are talking about and frankly my friend I would be careful taking a lot of that information to the bank. Why not trust the industry standards? You never referred to them one time in your scenario of bad ideas.

I'll give you the final word!
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:06 PM   #25
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Hi Guys! Was reading your thread with great interest about tiling over a wooden deck. Just wanted to report in to you that we decided to chance this about 8 years ago on a screened in wooden deck off our kitchen. We used porcelain tiles and concrete board. Although all the professionals at Lowe's and the other home-improvement stores told us that it wasn't recommended, we choose to chance it. Extremely tired of replacing wood, couldn't afford the composites, and did not want an outdoor carpet. I must tell you that we have had absolutely no problems with the tile or the grout. We did make sure that the support system was adequate. Our backporch looks as good as it did when we first installed it. Yes, it does get slick when it rains but so does wood planking. We simply squeegee it off and cleaning it is as easy as getting the mop and bucket out. It gets very cold here and very hot and humid as we live in central Missouri at Truman Lake. But the weather, hot or cold has not seemed to be a problem. I would definitely say it is worth a shot - cost effective - extremely low maintenance and looks absolutely beautiful. Soooo much better than the grayed wooden decking which is so hard to maintain in our hot humid lake climate. I'm not an expert or a contractor of any kind - just a plain ole homeowner tired of waterproofing a wooden deck and who wanted to try something different.
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:34 PM   #26
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i just tiled an outside porch that use to be wood. tore all the wood out and poured concrete. tile on wood outside is just inviting disaster, the biggest reason is expansion. if it were me i wouldn't worry about it if you have already done it. wait for it to fail and get the research and planning ready for your next project. till then this will last.....awhile...
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:00 PM   #27
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Hi Guys! Was reading your thread with great interest about tiling over a wooden deck. Just wanted to report in to you that we decided to chance this about 8 years ago on a screened in wooden deck off our kitchen. We used porcelain tiles and concrete board. Although all the professionals at Lowe's and the other home-improvement stores told us that it wasn't recommended, we choose to chance it. Extremely tired of replacing wood, couldn't afford the composites, and did not want an outdoor carpet. I must tell you that we have had absolutely no problems with the tile or the grout. We did make sure that the support system was adequate. Our backporch looks as good as it did when we first installed it. Yes, it does get slick when it rains but so does wood planking. We simply squeegee it off and cleaning it is as easy as getting the mop and bucket out. It gets very cold here and very hot and humid as we live in central Missouri at Truman Lake. But the weather, hot or cold has not seemed to be a problem. I would definitely say it is worth a shot - cost effective - extremely low maintenance and looks absolutely beautiful. Soooo much better than the grayed wooden decking which is so hard to maintain in our hot humid lake climate. I'm not an expert or a contractor of any kind - just a plain ole homeowner tired of waterproofing a wooden deck and who wanted to try something different.
I am so glad I saw this post. I am planning on doing the same thing on my wood deck (10 years old)except instead of tiles I am just laying the cement board (which I will seal the underside),taping and thinsetting the joints,priming with concrete bonding primer and then painting with epoxy paint with color chips. It will be sealed with a polycrylic(4 coats). I have a sample board I am working on. The deck is covered and a layer of 15lb. roofing felt will go over the deck.
I know it will work!
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:35 AM   #28
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http://www.tiproboard.com/index.html

We're interested in doing this to our raised front porch and deck.
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Old 12-24-2010, 05:19 PM   #29
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teahead,

Don't be misled by the claims of that product. I don't know anything about the product but I did read into the website and there are many disclaimers you may not have picked up on. So protect yourself and investigate that product thoroughly. Unless of course you are spamming this website then it won't matter to you anyway.
  • You deck structure must first be suitable.
  • The mortar used to fill the ribs must be suitable.
  • The panels are not in fact waterproof without adding a waterproofing membrane to the top of the mortar.
  • There is no ready-mention of a need to flash the edges where they meet structure walls.
Just be careful with these guys.
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Old 12-24-2010, 05:38 PM   #30
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No, seriously interested in that product as i like the idea of tile on a deck. I'll do more investigating.

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