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-   -   Please HELP me help my mom with her house (http://www.diychatroom.com/f2/please-help-me-help-my-mom-her-house-20094/)

FORD11 04-19-2008 12:29 AM

Please HELP me help my mom with her house
 
Hello all,

I am new to this site, found it on Google. My mom's house is an older house built in the 30's to 40's. It was moved from downtown Atlanta to 30 miles west of Atlanta in 89 or 90 when mom bought it. When the house was moved, they cut the top of the roof off, down about half way on both sides. We never knew this, I was in 6th grade or something like that. When they put the roof back on, they did not "brace" it properly, they sistered the 2x6 rafters with 1x6 boards that are anywhere from 18" to 24" inches long. Then they went below the rafters about 1' and nailed 2x4's to each rafter going down to a 2x6 that spans across all of the ceiling joists, it is not 1 2x6 though, it is in pieces, 2 I believe. The 2x6's are not on top of a wall at all(not sure if this is important or not). Also, some of the 2x4's are not even whole, they found 2 scrap pieces and nailed them together. Her roof has 3 layers of shingles on it and from the exterior there are noticable dips and waves going across her roof. I have been tasked by mom to re-roof her house, when I began to look at it I originally thought that the waves were from water damage due to the shingle failure, but when I crawled in the attic I found the structural fiasco. My mom lives below the poverty level and I don't have the money to pay anyone either so I am left to do this on my own ability and experience(4 years of building houses in college as a helper, I picked up alot but it has been 10 years since I did it and have only took on small side projects since then, this is the first major one). I have 4 house jacks and plan on getting in the attic and jacking up the roof some to try and correct some of the sagging, then I plan on sistering the rafters with 2x6's that are 6ft long or longer, after that I am not sure what other support needs to be put in and how, not sure how to tell if there are any interior load bearing walls in her house(there is ALOT of blown insulation in the attic), it is a small house, only 30ft long and about 24 to 28ft wide. After I get the roof "level" and supported again I will then tear off the shingles and replace any water damaged planks and then re-roof with the 30-year architectural shingles she has bought(this part I can handle, although I have only worked with "regular" shingles, never with architectural). My questions are:

How do I properly jack up the roof?
How do I properly support the roof going forward so that I do not cause any damage to her ceilings or walls below?

PLEASE OFFER ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU MAY THINK OF INCLUDING ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS I SHOULD HAVE ASKED BUT DIDN'T KNOW TO ASK.

Thanks and I truly apologize on the novel but I didn't know how to explain in 2 to 3 sentences.

Joey:eek:

LawnGuyLandSparky 04-19-2008 12:32 AM

The BEST thing to do is just tear off the entire kit & kaboddle, and reframe a proper roof and shingle it.

FORD11 04-19-2008 01:01 AM

Yeah, I know that this is the best way but we do not have the funds for that.

thanks,
Joey

HandyPete 04-19-2008 03:30 PM

Don't go jacking anything! It's a very touchy thing to do anywhere in a wooden structure. Most of the time you can never jack over 1/4" because after everything gets all cozy together, you don't wanna go break up the party!

Your better off building around the problem by adding more wood. There's plenty to that too. You need to consider at least this..

1) structure
2) weight
3) ventilation
4) compatibility
5) fasteners
6) temperature, humidity, location

...and probably a lot more!


- pete

BTW (and you don't have to answer this question) wouldn't it be cheaper to sell the house and have mom live in a trouble-free apartment? (just a thought)

LawnGuyLandSparky 04-21-2008 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FORD11 (Post 117487)
Yeah, I know that this is the best way but we do not have the funds for that.

thanks,
Joey

Trade in your ill-chosen 30 year architecutal shingles for the 15-year crap that costs 1/3 as much, and spend the savings on properly reframing the roof.

If that doesn't work I'm afraid I'm fresh out of ideas. You can't get blood from a stone, and if you can't afford to properly take care of a house, then you can't afford to properly take care of a house.

Part of "affordibility" is prioritizing and logical decision making skills & execution. You're like the customer who balks at the $250.00 to install a circuit because 1/2 the house goes out whenever their $3000.00 plasma TV is turned on, who also "can't afford" it. :huh:

HandyPete 04-21-2008 05:56 PM

LawnGuy, what you just said is down right insulting! How do you justify giving tips to DIY's with language like that? It just sounds to me that your making a rather harsh judgment.

BTW, there's a lot of guys like you on this forum and I'm kinda wondering if there are any moderators...

-- pete

jerryh3 04-21-2008 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joba Fett (Post 118018)
Lawn,
You called it right. He's one of the sleazy flippers out to make a quick buck by cutting corners anyway he can.

And you know this how? If he was just a sleazy flipper, don't you think he would have just done it and not asked about how to do it properly?

tinner666 04-21-2008 09:18 PM

Well, it can be done. But there is no way that anybody here will be able to help you. It's entirely TOO involved structurally, to explain it to any newbie.
It's dangerous to the structure and to you.

It just REQUIRES too much experience, and sometimes dumb luck to get it right.:(

FORD11 04-22-2008 12:22 AM

Wow!!!
 
To LawnGuy,

You may be right, mom probably ill-chose the arch shingles over regular shingles that would have been cheaper, leaving her more money for other repairs, BUT, she bought the shingles last year in preparation for doing her roof this year, so she can't take them back, she bought them when the manufacturer had discontinued them so that she could afford them. As for the tv/power circuit analogy, those people are out there, but your WAY off here, mom is flat out poor, living below the povertly level and she lives and spends within her means, she does not even have cable and I gave her the tv she has.

To Tinner, Jerry, Handy,

Thank you for your posts.

To Joba Fett,

I don't even know what a "flipper" is. I am trying to help my mom man, I am not a contractor nor am I getting paid for it in any way. I am a "weekend handy man" who is way over his head with this project and just asking for some advice. I just wish you were a contractor in our area, I guarantee after your free estimate visit that you would be telling everyone that there is a certain area of town that you do not care to work in anymore. I would comment on your attitude being typical for someone who is from the North, which is where I am assuming you are from, but I do not believe in stereotypes. I am actually a little confused, from your quote that you put with your posts I thought you were a conservative but you actually sound very liberal. I like what your quote says but I think you may be giving Christian conservatives like my self a bad name. Anyway, no harm done, just your opinion and I know where I stand. By the way, if you are in business for yourself as a contractor, I truly hope that you treat your customers and potential customers with more respect.

joasis 04-22-2008 08:11 AM

With 3 layers of existing shingles on the roof, I would tear off and re-roof with basic 3 tabs. You might be amazed how much the roof "straightens" out on it's own with the weight off. You don't have snow loads to really worry about, so carefully placing some "jacks" and braces would catch the rest of the problems. Use 3 inch screws instead of nails when possible on the framing members, and see how you make out.

I have seen much worse, and there are economical ways to make it work, if you have the basic skills to do it.

joasis 04-22-2008 08:14 AM

As an added point here, please be civil...if you have nothig helpful to add (the point of a DIY forum), refrain from commenting. Thanks, Jay

moneymgmt 04-22-2008 09:26 AM

Are you certain its the truss structure that is "wavy"? With 3 layers of shingles I'm assuming there was water damage at some point, perhaps whatever sheathing material was used is sagging between the trusses? Optimistically, try ripping off the singles and sheathing (which is likely 1x6's laid side by side if it is original) and starting fresh from there.

LawnGuyLandSparky 04-22-2008 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joba Fett (Post 118018)
Lawn,
You called it right. He's one of the sleazy flippers out to make a quick buck by cutting corners anyway he can.

Boba Fett, we really have no way of knowing that for sure. I base my reply on what was stated.

LawnGuyLandSparky 04-22-2008 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FORD11 (Post 118091)
To LawnGuy,

You may be right, mom probably ill-chose the arch shingles over regular shingles that would have been cheaper, leaving her more money for other repairs, BUT, she bought the shingles last year in preparation for doing her roof this year, so she can't take them back, she bought them when the manufacturer had discontinued them so that she could afford them. As for the tv/power circuit analogy, those people are out there, but your WAY off here, mom is flat out poor, living below the povertly level and she lives and spends within her means, she does not even have cable and I gave her the tv she has.

To Tinner, Jerry, Handy,

Thank you for your posts.

To Joba Fett,

I don't even know what a "flipper" is. I am trying to help my mom man, I am not a contractor nor am I getting paid for it in any way. I am a "weekend handy man" who is way over his head with this project and just asking for some advice. I just wish you were a contractor in our area, I guarantee after your free estimate visit that you would be telling everyone that there is a certain area of town that you do not care to work in anymore. I would comment on your attitude being typical for someone who is from the North, which is where I am assuming you are from, but I do not believe in stereotypes. I am actually a little confused, from your quote that you put with your posts I thought you were a conservative but you actually sound very liberal. I like what your quote says but I think you may be giving Christian conservatives like my self a bad name. Anyway, no harm done, just your opinion and I know where I stand. By the way, if you are in business for yourself as a contractor, I truly hope that you treat your customers and potential customers with more respect.

Ford11-

You have to realize you mom is in a pickle. There isn't going to really be a static, correct response to your dilemma when you set the parameters that is cannot cost anything to fix. It's like saying "my boiler blew up, I don't have a nickel to my name, how can I fix this?" the only real answer is freeze to death you poor bastard... That may be harsh, but that is reality do not blame the messenger for telling the truth.

If you haven't made a decision on what to do, I suggest this.

-First, do a full tear off. Putting new shingles (especially architectual shingles) on as a 4th layer will be like adding insult to injury. (A full tear off is every layer of shingle down to the tarpaper, incl., the tarpaper. All you should have left is the wood decking.

-When everything is torn off, the roof will be relatively light. If you think it will help, match whatever rafters you have with 3-4' pieces of new lumber of the same dimension (2x6, 2x8, whatever) and sister the cuts using 3" SCREWS in a zig-zag pattern so that the roof framing is as strong as it can be, under the circumstances. You can probably get loads of dimensional lumber in 3-4' pieces from local construction site dumpsters, or housewreaking companies.

-Install new roofing felt and the new shingles as planned.

-In the end, what you'll have will be worlds better than what you have now. It's not a 100% perfect solution, but it's the best anyone can do under your circumstances.

FORD11 04-22-2008 11:35 PM

Joasis,

Thank you for your comments. I have thought of the fact that 3 layers of shingles is adding alot of weight and do believe that once I have all that torn off and 1 layer put back on that so of the sagging will go away. There are structural problems as well though.

Moneymgmt,

Thank you for your comment. They are actually both problems.

Joba Fett,

Apology accepted. Well I didn't actually refer to you as a lib, just said you sounded like one, I apologize for that one.

LawnGuy,

I believe I may have misrepresented my mom's financial situation. It is not that she can not afford the lumber needed to repair her roof. She just can't afford to completely tear out all roof decking and rafters and replace everything. I did not expect to get answers on how to "PROPERLY"(key word) fix her house for free. She just can't afford to pay anyone for labor, that is where I come in, or replace everything. I have already purchased some 2x6's to sister all the rafters and some other 2x6's to brace everything, I probably will end up having to make another trip for some more but the main thing is just figuring out the best way to jack up the roof before I brace it where it needs to be. I appreciate the advice and many of the things you and a couple of others have said to do is what I plan to do. I believe I will take some before and after pics so share with this website so that you all can see what I am dealing with and what I done about it.

thanks


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