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Old 11-21-2012, 06:33 AM   #46
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


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You may think you are running a great show by nickeling and diming the workers and mandating that they make no profit or cover the overhead that all tradesmen have---

But I would be astonished if they aren't ignoring errors made but yourself or other workers----using less than ideal products because you aren't going to cover the costs involved with getting the right stuff.

I once worked for a man who had a similar attitude as you ----I just shut up and watched as his other subs buried subpar work because they would have to eat the expense of doing it right---

Every tradesman makes mistakes and needs to tear out work and re do it---this is part of overhead---and profit----to many mistakes and there is no profit---but a margin of some sort must be in every job----

If that margin does not exist----errors must be left and buried.
Hmm, how would they use less than ideal products if I'm providing the materials? That would mean I provided less than ideal products and I deserve everything I get.

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Old 11-21-2012, 08:15 AM   #47
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


There are time I even 'buy the wrong product' and must go get something that works---

I had a glue problem recently---specs said it would do what was needed---it failed----wall covering needed to be removed--replaced--walls scraped and a different glue used----

Fortunately the materials were provided by the customer on that job so a back charge was used to cover the expense.

Many ways to get the wrong stuff----studs are a good example----a carpenter will choose the best regardless of cost---a homeowner might go for price and get poor quality----which takes longer to install and yields a second rate job----

A pro tile setter will always insist on his brand and type of setting materials---and may need to change materials depending on the weather and adhesion to the tile----

Easy to need to change materials after the project starts---and easier yet for a homeowner to choose incorrect materials because of unfamiliarity with the products.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:41 AM   #48
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


*Not going to feed the thread troll anymore.*

Last edited by Squished; 12-05-2012 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:57 AM   #49
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


Ever hear of a roofer hauling off 4 or 5 sqs of shingles as he was getting paid by the sq and you miss figured? I have a feeling that you had some poor subs or first timers. I sure wouldn't have worked for you.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:08 AM   #50
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


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Then you must have been a real likeable guy.
That's what they tell me.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:43 AM   #51
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


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Lots of more really good points here.

To explain why we have to pay for an estimate is that it is a fema flood map requirement for a detailed estimate to ensure that you are not going over 1/2 the cost of the house or then you have to raise the house and do mitigation yadda yadda. It has nothing to do with insurance etc but a requirement for the county.
I have no idea what a fema flood map is, I'm fortunate to live in an area not affected by the type of weather problems you have.
I am going to assume fema has a impact on the quotes you're getting.
I have bid projects such as sewer line replacements and the home owner is getting special funding. I frown when I see it because of the extra cost breakdowns and paperwork involved, not to mention the extended time period to wait for payment
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:05 AM   #52
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


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I would like to echo many of the comments above and add:

Its a war of attrition: if you want one price, call five contractors. If you want three prices, call 12.

This is why the OP is having so much trouble getting someone to come out to give her a quote. Why wouldn't the first five be a clue to a fair price?
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:14 PM   #53
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


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This is why the OP is having so much trouble getting someone to come out to give her a quote. Why wouldn't the first five be a clue to a fair price?

Windows, I am not getting 5 or 12 prices, heck I'd be happy to get even ONE from an electrician or a hvac company. I could not get anyone out and the one that did come out was price gouging. Since the original post I have since been able to get a hvac and drywall price but still waiting for the electrician. I am not price shopping just trying to get more than one quote. All of the advice on this site is to get 3 quotes, we couldn't even get that if we tried due to the issues down here.

I certainly agree that 12 is a leeetle overkill but I dont think its unreasonable to get 3, that should give you a good idea of what is out there.
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:18 AM   #54
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


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Why can't people get more than 1 estimate?

Also, if you cut corners on my house you wouldn't get your final payment. Hard to cut corners when i supply the materials. In my book you're entitled to your labor rate and nothing more. I don't pay profit and overhead to anyone. That's reserved for General Contractor's and that's why I'm the GC.
Let see: A homeowner "GC" is always a nightmare because in reality they don't know what they're doing: the scheduling is off, materials are often incorrect and in short supply, etc. This is why a real GC is paid a percentage of a build price. The contractor should be the one supplying materials for a job, not a home owner.

Not a great idea to getan excessive amount of estimates in order to start a bidding war to the bottom-that's what you will get is the bottom feeders working for cheap.

The thing about charging for estimates is it weeds out the cheapos that will get like 5-10 other estimates in order to get a cheap price. People willing to pay a reasonable price for quality work don't mind paying someone for their time to give an estimate... Charging appropriately for your time will get better customers in the end. You can avoid those who will want to supply their own material, and don't understand that all business's have markup and profit (and need it to survive) etc etc
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:54 AM   #55
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


Don't know about the rest of you following this thread, but I vote Squished and Eplumber never do a project together...or if they do it's on a pay per view channel.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:55 PM   #56
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


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Don't know about the rest of you following this thread, but I vote Squished and Eplumber never do a project together...or if they do it's on a pay per view channel.

I don't believe anyone here would qualify to work for old squishy, we have to make a profit in order to feed our families
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:56 PM   #57
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


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Don't know about the rest of you following this thread, but I vote Squished and Eplumber never do a project together...or if they do it's on a pay per view channel.
Never happen, he'd take all the profit.....
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:09 PM   #58
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


I don't let the customer provide materials so I wouldn't qualify.

My loss ,I'm sure------Besides all work would stop if I ran shot or didn't like what I was provided with.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:29 PM   #59
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


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One thing to note though, I would never in a million years allow more than a 5% variance in a "total price" job. If you can't bid a job within 5% of the actual cost you shouldn't be in business for yourself or shouldn't be bidding for the company you work for. That's just simply ridiculous. It's not allowed in corporate America, it shouldn't be allowed in tradeswork. Everyone should be accountable to their price.
Here's the grey area with this-
Let's take something simple like installing a new toilet. Once we agree on the make and model of the toilet that I will supply, we then agree on a price for me to pull and dispose of old toilet, install new one including bowl wax, bolts, supply line and seat for $500 with warranty.
All starts out well. Angle stop is turned off and up comes the old toilet- only to find your closet flange is broke. Now, for me to stay within your 5% variance. I either eat the new flange or I set the toilet and cross my fingers for the duration of my warranty.
Or, let's say the flange is ok but I couldn't get the water to shut off. Do I eat a new angle stop? I think not. I price per job, and it's defined in the contract documents. Once additional M&L is needed. I expect a change order of some sort- sure, we can negotiate on the finer points but I'll still want something for my time.
As for the corporate world, do you pay an attorney by the hour or per court case or both?
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:05 PM   #60
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This is part of the reason why people DIY when they shouldn't


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Believe it or not, i can be very easy to work with, I just like to work a tight budget. I do allow certain people to provide their own materials, especially plumbers and electricians since their quality from the supply house doesn't even come close to what I can get elsewhere. If I like your overall price, I will hire you, I can assure you that.

FYI guys, the only reason I'm like this (labor and materials separated and itemized) is because I'm on an FHA 203k renovation mortgage. I'm literally not allow to hire and pay any sub that works on my house with the renovation money unless their quote/invoice is in the form of labor and materials broken down. If I submitted a total price job, it would be rejected and no one would get paid. All the people that are currently working on my project knew the rules and that being said, I literally had 3-4 people of each trade submitting prices in that format to work on the job.

It's not as uncommon as some of you may think.

One thing to note though, I would never in a million years allow more than a 5% variance in a "total price" job. If you can't bid a job within 5% of the actual cost you shouldn't be in business for yourself or shouldn't be bidding for the company you work for. That's just simply ridiculous. It's not allowed in corporate America, it shouldn't be allowed in tradeswork. Everyone should be accountable to their price.
LOL, ya right.

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